Titans of NY - Episode #111 of CloudFocus Weekly

Machine transcript generated in 2026 from the episode audio (Whisper speech-to-text with automatic speaker separation). Speaker labels are automatic and may be wrong in places. Timestamps shown every few minutes.

00:10 Jason Atwood: This is the 111th episode of CloudFocus Weekly for the third week of October 2012. This episode is titled Titans of New York. CloudFocus Weekly is sponsored by Arkus. Cloud for the experts. I'm your host, Jason Atwood, and joining me for the 111th time, 111. It's the co-host, King of the Podcast, Justin Edelstein. Thanks, King of the Podcast? I don't know, I had a little moment of love for you. That was cool, thanks. It's gone. Ah,

Justin Edelstein: Call me Titan of Podcast. Titans of Podcasting, that's not bad. I like this Titans of New York, it has a little double meaning for me. Yes, it does. And if anyone's smart out there, they'll know what I'm talking about. But I'm not smart, you just got insulted.

Jason Atwood: Oh, that's not true. Everybody didn't get it. You're not smart. You're a big sports fan. You're dumb.

Justin Edelstein: Just say it. All right. If you're a sports fan, you'll get it.

Jason Atwood: So we have agenda today. We are going to talk about the Bulldog Post, which leads us right into Cloudforce, because the blog post is about Cloudforce, New York. We have an article on Salesforce looking to dump Oracle tech. Very cool. There's a couple spins to that. There's actually a couple articles about it. And then one that came out on CustomerThink, it sparked my interest this morning, which was everyone talking about social CRM, you are doing it. So we're going to give our spin on that. Good topic. Then we'll make our CloudFocus app picks of the week and go from there. So to start us off, the newest blog post up on blog.arcasync.com from. them. I'll see you next time. Yet another person did not be named, although she's named in the article, oh, I said she, that kind of gives it away.

Jason Atwood: That throws it off.

Justin Edelstein: Is about Cloudforce New York. She puts her Twitter handle in there. She does, she does. Everything has a byline with the Twitter handle at the bottom. It's stupid. A lot of people reach directly out to me, which is nice, about. blog posts I've written like Months ago. Yeah via Twitter. It's pretty cool. We like that when you do that We also like when you comment on them and discuss so we can have little conversations about our blog post So the blog post itself is about Cloudforce New York what to expect Tomorrow yeah tomorrow asks a couple questions like who will we see this will we see that? Go read it. We're not going to sort of go over, you know, what the blog post is all about, but we can start chatting up about Cloudforce since it is tomorrow.

Justin Edelstein: And I'll ask you the question. Question? Go on. Will it be... Ooh, you took my line. I did.

Jason Atwood: Go on. All the taxis will be blue yellow. Oh, okay. I find out it's kind of I'm almost looking forward to seeing this one more Strangely because now that I've seen it. It's kind of like watching a movie for the second time you get to Go and watch. Okay. Now. I'm not paying attention to that cool. Whatever I'm like listening to what he's talking about or I feel like I'll just have a different different view of it Also be with some clients this time, which we weren't last time. It was just you and I in some crazy section so Sitting with clients, it's always kind of fun to sort of get there sort of ooze-ah's from it You get to lean over give them a little nudge and say hey look that's

03:45 Justin Edelstein: That's you in a year Yeah, how cool is that you'll be up there? I'm up there, but what I'm hoping but it's more like hey that be isn't that cool like you give a little nudge you can use that for this or you can use this for that. What I'm hoping for in the 3.24

Jason Atwood: % left, didn't, the math doesn't make up.

Justin Edelstein: Did you use pi on your calculation? Maybe, 3.14.

Jason Atwood: I'm hoping for a little bit more on the dates. It's one of the things I think didn, didn't come out so much as like, oh, this will be in public, this will be in pi, this will be in, I'd like a little bit more on the dates this time. A little bit more sort of, you know, okay, it's been a month. And winter 13's been out. So we actually have, you know, some of this stuff is out and we can sort of stop talking about it. Now let's, talk about the sort of stuff that's coming up. So I'll be interested to... to hear about that. For us, you and I actually, because I signed us up without asking you, we are going to be at the tweet up, which is in front of the command center.

Jason Atwood: So I think they're setting up the social command center, the thing you wanted to see. So I think if If you want to see, since we don't have a booth at this one. come to the tweet up at 3 30 is it 3 or 3 30.

Justin Edelstein: I will check while we spend no time at all. I think it was 3 but either 3 or 3 30 come hang out ask yeah I think it'll be a ask the MVP type of situation so if you have a question come on over ask us we'll hopefully be able to answer it for you it'll be a lot of fun Come meet us in person. We know we have quite a few listeners here in New York. We look at our statistics. So hopefully you've heard this before Cloudforce and getting ready for Cloudforce and you can come see us live and in person as opposed to in a little cartoon like our logo. Our logo.

Jason Atwood: I'm actually looking for it now. I can't see if I can. find it. I think it's, I think it's 3.30 to 4. Actually, you know what, I can look on my calendar. You can look on your calendar. My calendar said, ask MVP 3.30 to 4. 3.30 to 4. So we'll be there for a half hour. Yes. So both of us, actually with Judy, with Judy Sohn. Judy Sohn.

Justin Edelstein: She's a big nonprofit expert. So if you have nonprofit questions, I'm sure she'll be able to, you could ask you. You can ask me too, but she's a, she's a big expert in that.

Jason Atwood: So, that'd be kind of fun. I don't know. Are we tweeting our answers? I don't get what the tweet up like. I think it's more of a... they just called it a tweet up.

Justin Edelstein: It's not really a tweet up. I don't think we're tweeting answers. I think it's more of a... people are to follow some hashtag perhaps that wasn't given to us to know to come see us. New York at the Tweet up in front of the command center. So that's it. Maybe we'll be answering questions via the command center. I don't know. That would be fun. That would be fun. But I think we're there to meet people in person.

Jason Atwood: By the way, been noticing that Salesforce has been like I tweeted something about Cloud for us and for Salesforce tweeted back, yeah, great to see you there. Like they're sticking to their second game, which we're going to talk about in a little bit. But let's jump right now. On Jumper, you want to just give a quick overview of the schedule.

06:55 Justin Edelstein: Draw. Oh, yeah, why don't we do that? So registration is open from 730 to 10 so you can get there as early as 730 There's actually a breakout session from 830 to 930 Okay the first session of the day is not the keynote and a lot of the that that first session is The product keynotes. So if you're really interested in Sales Cloud or work.com or the platform or social or whatever get there at 7.30, register and go to your breakout session at 8.30. The Benioff business's social keynote is not happening until 10. So from 10 to noon, which you'll probably go over, expect to see the same keynote that you saw at Dreamforce or the one that's on YouTube. Although he's going to be cutting it down because he spent 3.5 hours on the other one.

Justin Edelstein: And so there's lunch in the. expo from 12 to 1 and then after that from 1 until 5 there are more product keynotes as well as breakout sessions. A lot of these seem to be more product driven, not so much like customer. customer driven sessions like they are at Dreamforce. A lot of these seem to be presentations from Salesforce. That's actually great. Other than the 3.3.4, I'd

Jason Atwood: Like to actually go to one of the ones that I missed. I missed all of them at Dreamforce because I was doing other things. So it'd be interesting just to go to some of these and get a little bit, see some of the product ones. I mean, I haven't watched them on YouTube.

Justin Edelstein: Yeah, I would like to do that as well. I'd really like to see the work.com one, but unfortunately I'm... Meeting a client from 9 to 9 30 we actually before the schedule came out We thought we were meeting in the middle of the Benioff keynote So we were like oh we can miss we've kind of seen it. Yeah, so we'll miss half of like a half hour of it We'll just meet in the outside right and that is not happening now

Jason Atwood: Okay, yeah, so Cloudforce New York, we'll hope to see you there again if you want to we're not we don't have a boost So it's gonna be hard to sort of get us if you want to come say hi we will be at the tweet up 3.30 to 4. And also just tweet at us. Yeah we'll hopefully that there's some Wi-Fi, good Wi-Fi, good LTE happening. All right next up on the agenda this article it's been hit a couple times it stemmed from it's called Salesforce looking to dump Oracle tech and it stemmed from a Salesforce posting of jobs on their whatever career site. looking for lots, and I think the number was 40 different developers of Postgres SQL, or Postgres SQL, or Postgres SQL, which immediately caught my eye only because I used to be a Postgres SQL guy.

Jason Atwood: Like I used to build Postgres SQL sites, and it was when the MySQL versus Postgres SQL world, world, huh. World Wars, not easy for me to say, we're going on. I was always on the Postgres SQL site. It's much more It's heavy-duty. It had inner and outer joins way before it's It was meant to be and is meant to be it's an open source database system And it's meant to be a competitor for Oracle. So open source totally free you know built by developers, but it had the feature set that was more towards Oracle than MySQL, was more towards speed. MySQL was built to basically handle many reads, few writes, and not having a lot of complex stable database structures. Postgres SQL was always meant to be a full-fledged enterprise class. Now of course It's hard to get hold in the enterprise world because, you know, oh, what are you going to use Oracle or DB2 or this open source project that has an elephant for the logo.

10:43 Jason Atwood: Oh, I don't know. Let's use Oracle. So I'm fascinated that, you know, in sort of this storyline is that here's Salesforce who got made fun of by Oracle. at their open world for having Heroku which supports PostgreSQL and they're like tech, the entire back office or back database system, although they've developed a system on top of it.

Justin Edelstein: That they've patented runs on Oracle Engine is an open source product. Yep. Right. It's Lucene. Lucene. Or at least it was Lucene. It may still be. It wouldn't be their first foray into open source. This would just be an enormous enormous change. Yeah. I mean, taking your database and moving it to another database. That's kind of a big deal. That's massive. And it's not just your database. It's everybody's database. as far as 95% probably more of Salesforce customers are concerned their database is Salesforce, right? Their database is not work all they don't care. They don't know and that's part of the fun. It's it's my database is Salesforce So it's like oh well in some respects like I don't care Just don't make don't have Salesforce change. Like I don't care. And in fact, if you can, just make it better.

Justin Edelstein: But I don't really care what you Salesforce use on the back end. If it's going to make it cheaper for me, that might be nice because it's open source versus something that you're probably paying Oracle a pretty penny for. but I'm not sure I care from an end user perspective.

Jason Atwood: No, as an actual Salesforce end user, like clicks not, not code, button click admin type a guy, no, have no care, but couple things. One is it does separate out Salesforce away from, you know, while again, two ways to think about it. If you're a large enterprise, Part of what the cities, the Morgan Stanley's, these mega-corps that are used in Salesforce, they feel satisfied knowing that the back, yes, they know that Salesforce isn't the database. They go, what's your database? You go, oh, it's Oracle. Okay, fine. And that's sort of a checkbox. So on the sort of high-end enterprise class customer. They care that what your back end is. And if you say we're using Postgres SQL, they might go, hmm, not really, like, I don't know. Because Oracle's tried and trust. Again, it's the same reasons that people don't get fired for for buying IBM.

Jason Atwood: Do you think that that's like a five years ago thinking?

13:44 Justin Edelstein: No. Like, no, no, let me keep going. No. Five years ago, Salesforce may have been posed with questions. We're posed with questions. What's your database? It's Oracle. And then five years later, later now, as Salesforce has become much more well established in a large enterprise space, what's your database? It's Salesforce. Like they can just say, it's Salesforce. We took. PostgreSQL, it's open source and we made it our own. We own it. It's ours. It's Salesforce. Why not? Because Oracle could say, it's Oracle.

Jason Atwood: Why can't Salesforce say, it's Salesforce? Because it's not. Salesforce, it's not Salesforce built.

Justin Edelstein: So they can take it and do kind of what they want with it, can't they? And then just say, it's a Salesforce database? No, because they say, what's your database system? What database system you use? It's Salesforce.

Jason Atwood: It's not. But that's a lie. That's like saying, what's your... What's your web server? It's Arkus. Why? Because we customized Apache. No you didn't. It's using Apache. Or it's Plone. Or it's Arkus web server because we customized Plone. No. You are using a name brand and a very well known open source product. Probably top 10, top 15. I think the point was, I thought the point you were getting to was that's sort of their job is to like dig into people's stuff and to say oh is this this and this and basically to question it because no one gets you know again you don't get fired for for questioning tons of stuff and going and making things more difficult you only get fired if you don't question and then something happens like something goes down and they go why didn't you ask what database system they're using what are the security flaws of Postgres versus Oracle what are the you know so again I think for most customers, maybe 90% of all of customers, I don't think they care at all.

Jason Atwood: But in terms of percentage of their licenses. It's like the 80% of the licenses care. So if you're a Japan post, if you're Dell, if you're, you know, Merrill Lynch, big one. You care and not you know, they're gonna have to you know, talk that around again. This is all this is all hype We don't know. This is the actual truth 40 developers is While it might seem like a lot in the world of five or seven thousand employees. It's not it could be some side project They're doing and this transition would take concept or something like that Whatever it might be.

Justin Edelstein: Prove a concept. Just don't change IDs or ID structures. No,

Jason Atwood: No. Well, they've done it before once. Salesforce has done it. Oh, the 1518?

Justin Edelstein: No, no, no. Just the whole structure of it. It has changed once in the past.

16:45 Jason Atwood: And I'm well, well back. I just don't know if this is part of there because we, we know that there's a core movement. the core technology, the core database technology, which we saw some of it with analytics, the analytics engine is allowing us to do stuff. Is this a sort of a push to like the one that's happening in three years, like the one that they're sort of whiteboarding at this point? Again, the one last thing I say is I love when open source technology is used by enterprises and forward-thinking enterprises because in the perfect world, and this happens a lot, the enterprise uses their resources for these open source projects, puts their money, puts it back into it. So a good example is Apple using WebKit for their Safari. WebKit was a basically unknown HTML engine.

Jason Atwood: That you know what anyone knew of. And all of a sudden Apple uses it for Safari, and then it's now been used by lots of different people, and it's sort of become, and the open source movement itself has gone up. So I love it from that standpoint, from a, I just love to see open source projects do well, and get sort of backing, and again, it's not official backing, but. Because there needs to be choices. Yes, there's Oracle, yes, there's my, well, my sequels. My sequels semi-owned now. I love the see open source movement. I like to see that there's a choice, and I like to see someone creating stuff that is, can compete with these bigger products. And changing the scope of, you know, changing the scope, like Rackspace, It's open clock we did well, we haven't talked about in a couple year or like in six months But it it's something now that's become an and they're really building an open source cloud computing platform, which is it which is a amazing so anyway Said a lot.

Jason Atwood: All right. Next up speaking of saying a lot That's my seguli of the day everyone talking about social CRM So this is on customerthink.com. A little survey slash, it's not a high survey like Gartner survey, but when one of the choices is yup, the probably like there was a lot

Justin Edelstein: And and the up is a lot of these are by a 16% where 46 is just nope and I think there's a question in the middle there that Nope, just flat out. No Absolutely not and then there's the worse. I think this is the worse number The number that's higher than yup by 1 percentage point is the what is that? What is that? What what that?

20:28 Jason Atwood: How are you talking about? Wow nice almost tell most put us into the explicit category So, you know interesting Again, I think it's to, cloud computing is a way to say you're either using something See, what is it? What would you say to them?

Justin Edelstein: ?, and, I. I. I would Other people, conversations that are happening between them and you as a salesperson that you're not really aware of, or as a customer service person that they're not really aware of, and it's the, the me that to me make up social CRM. It's not, a. the A and, That's like the tip of the iceberg to me. It's personas and profiles of themselves. You know where they work with LinkedIn. You know what their interests are with Twitter and maybe Pinterest or something else. You know who their friends are maybe if you're friends with them on Facebook. So it's that kind of thing where you're not just considering them a contact in your database, but you're also friends with them on. Facebook and then you get to see the interconnectivity between those two things.

Justin Edelstein: That was long-winded and not the elevator pitch but and it and that's just my perspective on it at this point because I don't think it's very well defined. It's like saying what is cloud computing five or six years ago. I mean even today what is cloud computing? Sort of hard answered it right to give to somebody who has who hasn't dipped even their toe. It's like, what's cloud computing?

Jason Atwood: I think it's one of those things that, it's hard to find, but I can list off the things that I can say, if you're doing these things, then you're doing social CRM. So I would say, A, you have a social presence as a company, right? You are out there. out there in the social world, you're on Google+, you're on Facebook, you're on Twitter, you're actually doing social things, and interactively, meaning you're not only, you know, pushing out stories like publishing, but you're also interacting with people. So people tweet at you, you tweet back, or you know, they're on Facebook and there's questions and stuff like that. Then I would say you're doing it from the service side. The service side is probably the easiest, you know, the easiest answer. Your. you will take in service requests and answers or questions from a social channel.

24:09 Jason Atwood: You don't say that social channels are not acceptable inputs into your data. For business. For business. We're all social CRM. CRM is a business thing. Then you're making the connections. You're making connections every time you add a new contact into your CRM system. You're looking to see if they have a Twitter handle if they have a Facebook page if they have the YouTube one is kind of useless, but you're looking to see if there are social or LinkedIn is big. You're looking to see that they're part of a social network and you're trying and you're and you're doing some analysis that you're looking at it. You know whether you're doing bringing in that data and doing something with it. fabulous, like oh, my client has 32 followers versus this other client who has 452 followers, which I don't think...

Jason Atwood: Very I don't think a lot of people are doing but it's more like you're connecting up the dots what I don't like Yes

Justin Edelstein: With like kind of what you're saying is is it's not just connecting dots what I really dislike is when? people use LinkedIn's kind of the big Culper here. I don't like getting emails from people on LinkedIn because they've searched for like technology CIO and they just find me and they're like, your business needs a new mobile strategy. And I'm like, well, that's not social CRM because you don't know who I am at all. Yeah, but see, there's a fine line there because someone's using, you know, you know, cultivating leads, making sales, managing the relationship afterwards. So, there's something missing in the way that people are kind of using it now where they're not connecting the dots and they should be able to connect the dots with my social profile to understand that maybe I don't need a mobile strategy.

Justin Edelstein: But that's like, that's any tool, any communication tool.

Jason Atwood: Not really talking about tools and talking more about the theory around it. But you're talking about a problem with the theory, but that's a problem with every theory. Or some... email is a great example. Email is something that at first started as this private one-to-one conversation, and then over a 10-year period got abused by... email marketers and spam, then the government had to come in and put in stuff to, you know, can spam act. So that happens with almost anything that if something becomes successful and hot, then people will try to use it for what it's not. How many tweets do you get that are like a tweet from some weird looking name that has a link to a picture or something that you should not click on? Never. It's never gonna be a good picture.

Jason Atwood: Don't click on that. It's not the picture they Never clicking on Alan. or someone follows you and then you go look at it. So anyway, just to continue, it's like, so not only is it about knowing their social profile, but like it's then about interacting. So yes, I can connect up these things and go, this is the person, I think the last piece is using social as a data source. And I think that's where, that's what I'm really excited about stuff like data.com social key, because using it as a way to as, as a source of data. So taking in, you know, scrubbing my CRM data with social data, so pulling that in well, and again, you know, it'd be nice if it were less expensive or whatever, but like the ability to look at a contact and go, great, I've connected them up to all these places.

27:40 Jason Atwood: Now, now click a button and show me... They have a profile picture here, here, and here. They have their hometown listed. Like 10 being the most social Sierra on the planet, one being whatever, zero. I was like, what? One being nope. One being nope. I was like, we try. We definitely do stuff in the social space. We definitely participate in all those social networks. I don't feel like in our sales cycle, I would ever go. dig into someone's like Twitter feed and read over 20 or 60 of the last tweets and go oh I saw that they're also talking to a competitor or whatever I don't think that way yet even me who's you know sort of in this game as well I was like you know what I think we do a an okay job but I think there's a long way to go before I consider that sort of a source of information.

Justin Edelstein: I think we do a nice job with our partners. Yep. on the social CRM side more than our prospects and clients.

Jason Atwood: It's not become the 100% norm to just be in everybody's face and every single channel. So if you're a client of ours, I- I might connect up using Salesforce social profiles. I might connect up to you and find your, Twitter handle or find your LinkedIn. That doesn't mean. LinkedIn I'd probably just go connect up no problem, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna tweet at you immediately Like hey had a great meeting because I still think there's a there's a privacy thing that people haven't wrapped their head around And are still kind of like yeah, I don't want you to do that yet. You know we've had clients You know tweet at us when they're late for a meeting Yes, we have for a conference call like hey. I'm late and sweetie guys That's fine.

Jason Atwood: And you know, I think part of being a social CRM is saying, if that's the way you want to communicate, fine. So anyway, interesting article. Go read up on it. It's called, everyone is talking about social CRM, but if you are doing it, it's on customerthink.com. It came out today. All right. Well, let's get to our CloudFocus app picks of the week. I see you have one written down, so that's good. I do. I do. Let's go for it. new one that came out this week that I saw in the newsletter,

Justin Edelstein: The Salesforce for Social Good, which comes out from the foundation company that we like called Groundwire. It makes a lot of free products for non-profit. This one's not free. I like free. This one's not free. Well, well this one's really cool. This one I feel like this one is I'm sure it was started well before but it's gonna be part of the push that the foundation helps To move people away from combio around and Because combio common ground did a lot of high-end things R.I.P. And I feel like this product here called ground wire engage does some things that Salesforce out of the box reporting nonprofit starter pack can't necessarily do it allows you to tag and Really tag and categorize your constituency in ways that are more meaningful for you.

31:15 Justin Edelstein: So categorizing them based on last activities and donations that they've made and membership in different campaigns and then allow you to measure effectiveness along the lines of who am I actually engaging with So it's nice, easy, configurable stuff that a typical admin, maybe even a power user would be able to configure and set up. Put some nice roll-up screens and categorization screen abilities on certain donors. and also that there's a there's a tool in here called the gratitude machine Which is kind of interesting because it allows you to you know segment lists even further to say you know show me people who You know show me people who have called You know ten times or show me people who who we've engaged with on More than X amount and put them in a category and then sort of run a little little report and reach out to those people and give thanks and help you move people from one stage to the next stage to the next stage of engagement with your organization.

Justin Edelstein: So it's a nice way to see the level of participation your constituents or your supporters have with you and then a way to get them into a greater level of partisan patient with you. So, that was interesting. I haven't really gotten a chance to play with it because it's kind of new and it's the pricing is for nonprofits it's $960 a year. Is that per user? Per non-profit. Per non-profit. So, at non-profit. per org pricing.

Jason Atwood: That's very interesting. Groundwire engaged on the app exchange and it'll be linked in our post on the CloudFocus Weekly post. As I always are, we don't really think we mentioned that. You know we don't like the articles we talk about but... I don't know, we just don't. Yeah, you can find those.

Justin Edelstein: There's this tool, it's called Google. It's called Google. Bing, use Bing.

Jason Atwood: Bing it. Use Apple Search. Apple Search. All right, well, mine is not as interesting, although mine is much better priced because it's free. Is it? So I'm actually using a platform. I'm going to talk about the platform because it's basically something that's been across almost everything. It's called Speed Test. Yes. And the reason I talk about this, I put this on my list the other day because I was using it with the new 4G LTE phones. It's fun to see as you- you walk around your neighborhood and you see the LTE, you're like, oh, how fast really is this? So when I was walking around my neighborhood the other day and I was seeing 22 megabits down, I was like, wow, that's nice. That is some serious speed. And I was using Speedtest. So speed test is called speed test X, but there are sort of many different variations.

Jason Atwood: You can go to speedtest.net, which is the one I use when I'm at work. I want to see if it's a good connection or not. SpeedtestX, there's a speedtestX, there's a speedtestXHD for iPads, which I use. But I use this thing all the time because I'm just like whenever you're watching Netflix or you're having a problem with something on your network, you're like, Oh, is it me or is it? service. I always use this, it pops it up and you know just starts to, it shows you on a sort of speedometer how fast your connection is and does up down and does a ping. It's a great way just to say oh it's not me, it's the service. I was having problems with streaming NFL games the other day and I went on just to check to see and it was my service, my RCN was very good.

34:56 Jason Atwood: It was them so I sort of complained to them. Anyway, speedtest.net, speedtestx and speedtestxhd, all part of the suite. They're all free. They'll have ads and ad support thing. Pretty cool. Check it out and definitely use it as, I mean, if you ever have a question of why is things coming down the so I just pop this open and start testing all the time. You can actually share them. You can put them up on Twitter. You can I always take screenshots and send them off to people which I find funny. All right. Well, that's it for the CloudFocus Weekly for this week. Hope to see some of you tomorrow Been getting lots of tweets and emails from people getting their iPod Nano so if you're a winner you should have gotten it by now if We didn't tell who the winners are because we kind of had a privacy thing.

Jason Atwood: So we can't like tell the winners are but You should have gotten it by now, so you should know. But we've gotten all the Twitter stuff. Thanks to everybody for participating. Remember that we also, we're going to keep the love alive in the Dreamforce portal. We have a portal group there where we post stuff, so if you want to follow us there you can. We're also on Twitter, twitter.com slash arca-sync and... Jason M Atwood and Just Edelstein. We're also on the Facebook. We do engage socially at Facebook.com slash Arkus Inc. We do LinkedIn as well. So if you want to follow us on a corporate side, you can follow our page there. We'll post all blogs and all podcasts as well. And finally, subscribe to the podcast in iTunes or your... podcast is your listener.

Jason Atwood: You know we're big Instacast fans and even though I tried to go to podcasts the other day, the Apple product, I went back to Instacast. Of course you did. Yeah they still doesn't do the one thing I want to do which is just download them in the background whenever they come out and not have not have to go into the app but I think that's a limitation of the iOS. Alright so till next week from Jake and Justin here in the podcasting studio. Enjoy those cloudy days.

Justin Edelstein: You