Ever-Hacked - Episode #128 of CloudFocus Weekly

Machine transcript generated in 2026 from the episode audio (Whisper speech-to-text with automatic speaker separation). Speaker labels are automatic and may be wrong in places. Timestamps shown every few minutes.

00:10 Jason Atwood: This is the 128th episode of Codbookers Weekly for the first week of March 2013. This episode is titled Ever Hacked. Kyle Voges, we get sponsored by Arceus, your community experts. I'm your host, Chase Nalwood. And joining me for the 128th time in a row, consecutively, this is pretty impressive, is Justin Edelstein. We're approaching Cal Ripken numbers here. This is big time. Big time. Big time stretch. This is a lot of podcasts. One a week and one week off and then the one week where we do a couple on the row, it's a lot of podcast. Just saying, just saying. Speaking of a lot of blog, a lot of podcast, we also have a lot of blog posts. And we have a new one this week. I think last week we just talked about mine up on the AppExchange All-Stars.

Jason Atwood: So we'll talk about that. We'll talk about Evernote and hacking that happened. end. There's a tizzy on a tizzy going on the idea exchange with actually just a mistake I was my word tizzy. Yeah, it looked like a tizzy It was a tizzy it's kind of funny and I got mixed up in it and you're kind of mixed up in it a.m. Little bit. Which is interesting and Then an article that relates to last time when we talked about Do people one article saying to do people really want to use support? Use Twitter for support, which will lead us into an article about 30% of top brands have service sent Twitter handles, which will then lead us into our next podcast where we're going to do a special thing. We'll tell you about that towards the end of this podcast.

Jason Atwood: And it'll make our cloud focus app pick of the week. I have the greatest pick ever. Can't wait. All right. So first up is the blog post on blog.arcasinc.com. Titled, things to consider for your Salesforce implementation. Which is a basically a nice little checklist if you're considering doing a Salesforce implementation. Nice little checklist of things you should be thinking about.

Justin Edelstein: I just like the image that we used for this blog post. It's like it's a flow chart. Yeah. The first thing on the chart is call Arkus. Call Arkus. And the last thing on the chart says... Party that's with an exclamation point.

Jason Atwood: I think I just I want something in the middle in the middle like you know the sausage factory Your party But yeah, some good some good tips. You know sort of really talking about you know should you self implement or call consultant What you should do before And sort of it gives you some hints of things of things if you are gonna self implement. So things you should be thinking about, like discovery, like training. Okay, well it's a nice big blog article, so go read it up on blog.arcasinc.com. Remember to discuss it. At the end you can use discuss and someone will get back to you and we can continue the social, wait, sorry, the company connect, the what? The who now? I don't know. And they basically went preemptively and reset everybody's password.

03:42 Jason Atwood: Everybody's. Yeah, mine included. So everybody who had to log in, you got... Yeah. Well, what the scary part of that is that's the key to the end of the... the key to the castle because a lot of us... I don't... Please don't get into my... my Evernote. But some people who I would never mention might keep some of their passwords to other places inside of Evernote. So if you get passwords to everything else, which is really scary. That is scary. I personally am not very scared because I don't really care. I don't know. What are you going to do? There are so many protections. stations. Sure steal my identity. Good.

Justin Edelstein: Come and live with my house. That's not what they do when they steal your identity. They don't come and live with your house. They don't come to your house and just like take care of your dog? Nope. They don't walk my dog. Walk my dog for me? They don't feed your daughter. No. They don't order to bed. They don't make sure she bressed her teeth. All those things you still have to do. They do the fun stuff. They just take all my money. Take your money.

Jason Atwood: And go on vacation. And go on vacation with my money. And the Caribbean. And I spend like two years trying to battle it. Right. and we come back to Jason Allen. So I think the interesting, this came out, you know, they reset, they acted pretty quickly, which is good.,

Justin Edelstein: , Yes, I noticed my I went to Evernote on the desktop and it's like you must reset your password Right. I'm just trying to click on things boop. Yeah, I'm like oh yeah I had to like force quit the application. It wouldn't even let me do anything and then I had to go to the web and reset reset it. Right.

Jason Atwood: Which wasn't a big deal. Wasn't a big deal. so... You should probably reset that password once in a

Justin Edelstein: It does bring me to the option to check the option off, like make me reset my password every three months or something.

Jason Atwood: Well, this is a good segue, a segue, as we would say, into a better topic, which is really about how these online services handle what is well-known as two-factor authentication and or password policies. And I think that These, what you're seeing is that the companies that used to start off with, oh, just I can 123 into your password and you can get in, are slowly realizing that they want to be big players. I'm looking at you Evernote, looking at you Dropbox, that if you want to be a big player and have people trust you, you have to do what others have done, looking at you Google, looking at you, Salesforce. and make your password policy... Looking at you, any bank. Yeah, any bank. Make it much, much better. And not only do things like...

Jason Atwood: So, here's the list of things that I would do if I were to do password policy stuff. One, you should be able to set. a password policy within your own system. So like any system you should be able to say have a the five or six widgets that say how long passwords need to be how strong they need to be how often they get changed how many you can ever use again and what happens if they try to if you try to use it too many times I love that on my phone and I keep that turned on you try to get into my phone more than 10 times Boom, down goes the phone. It just blows up in your hand. I like that because that to me is a little protection of, you know, yeah, if I forget ten times fine, but I basically don't want someone else to, you know, get in there.

07:11 Jason Atwood: All those things should be available. There should be ability to do that on any system. And then all these systems should have some sort of two factors. And I think, you know, we use a lot of online systems which have two-factor and that's, you know, that's generally the idea that you have not one, it's not a username and password, it's a username and password and something else. And I think we've seen, you know, Salesforce does it one way, which is very good, but could be better. Google does it another way and actually Dropbox recently added in two-factor onto theirs, which... I like the way Google does it. Yeah, so why don't you talk about one of the ways that Google does it.

Justin Edelstein: So I like the way Google does the verification. So the, I think our policy is set every month. 30 days. 30 days. So for your Google Docs, you can turn on two-factor and that requires not only for you logging into the web via just a web interface like Google Docs or Gmail. you have to type in your password and then every 30 days you have to type in like a five digit or six digit randomly generated code right after you typed in your username and password that you get which is tied to you when you first set up the two-factor where you have a mobile app on your phone or you can have it texted to your cell phone I think if you want and you use the pops a new code for you to type in and then boom you're verified for 30 days.

Justin Edelstein: Or if you're on someone else's computer you don't have to verify that computer for 30 days. You can say don't save it for 30 days. I'm just logging in here once and I've got this code here for now. They also have the application specific passwords. So if you're connecting to their services via a third-party client like mail.app or Outlook or a calendar application or any other application that you might be connecting to Google through your phone. It has specific passwords. It's not your actual password. There's a specifically generated password that is tied specifically to that application. It's a nice secure way of making sure that nobody can just connect to some Google property via your username and your regular password by bypassing that web code thing.

Jason Atwood: They have to actually have the application specific Pow. password for that particular device. Well, it's a way of not having a password that expires, so you don't have to go in and put new passwords for every device. The other nice thing they do is they allow you to see a dashboard of all of your passwords, both the applications that are accessing it and the specific, and see when they've last updated it, and you can give them names. So if you're smart you say you know this is math a Mac OS 10 lion. You know male Then you can go in and say oh, it looks like I've used that password like it looks like I authenticated two minutes ago Great, I get my mail all the time that makes sense, but I see like iPad one Right you should never name it iPad because you might have more than one iPad or you might upgrade so you say iPad one And they're like oh I still see that it's authentic it has the ability to authenticate in I click a button revoke That means that that device can never connect up and get in, which is very smart.

10:40 Jason Atwood: I think that, so that's well done. I like the way banks do it too, some banks.

Justin Edelstein: Some are, oof, not very good. Well, I like Ally. I use Ally Bank for online savings. So a little plug, they owe me money now. And they make you type in your username on one screen. in. then they pass you to another screen where you see your picture image and your phrase. But that's not two factor. That's not two factor. That's making sure that you're not logging into something. That's for phishing. Right. That you're not logging into something that you shouldn't be logging into. I like the way that they do that too. They also can save, they have the security questions like, I'm on this computer. recognize that I'm on this computer for X amount of time.

Jason Atwood: So a little different flavor of the authentication model online. And then I actually like the way that Salesforce does it in that when you log in for the first time it lets you log in with your username and password. So the first time in from that device and it basically says this browser can get in. now. But then if you try to go to a different device, you know, some other place, it will say, hey I don't recognize this device, I don't recognize this browser. I'm gonna send you a code and they actually have new texting code which is nice to register your phone, your cell phone in there. And then they send you an email to whatever email address is associated with your your user and then you get a little code and you pop that code in and then that device that device has gotten better over the years.

Jason Atwood: Browser is better.

Justin Edelstein: Well what's nice about that is it sort of used to not be fun. This used to log you out. Remember you used to not be able to just pump in the code and click a button and then keep going. Oh right. It used to like log you out. You can pump in the code, it would verify the computer in that browser and then you'd have to log in again. It's kind of annoying. And now it has the text messaging,

Jason Atwood: So you don't even have to check your of and you can just catch it on your phone. Right. The problem is, most people don't put their phones in first, so then the time they need it to get texted. They don't have it. They don't have it. But I like that because it's sort of protecting you against, it's protecting you against yourself and protecting you against wherever you're going and reminding you sort of if you're at your boss's house or you're at an internet cafe, hey dude, you're about to log in through a place that we don't recognize and you might not want to. leave this as a, you know, you might want to log out and not keep this as a place. So anyway, here, Evern, I tweeted immediately after they got hacked, I said, you guys got to go to two factor and Dropbox actually used the same.

Jason Atwood: I don't know how they did this. I mean, you know, it's must be aliens, but they used must be Google's the same. tool, the same tool that Google uses to do two-factor, the authenticator app that's on my iPhone that randomly generates it. I connected it up with Dropbox, so I now can go to one app to get any of the codes. Like Evernote, do that. Whatever that is, because that's good, because not only then I have the two-factor, but then I know I can go to one app to get it, and it has a list of them. Like I have my two Gmail's and my Arkus and my Dropbox, so it's like, oh great, I have all of them here. I would say I'd like Google to get a little bit better with making people do it.

14:02 Jason Atwood: I can't, as an administrator, tell people they have to turn on two-factor. They have to willingly want it. And I'm like, well, as an administrator, I should be able to say no. You all get two-factor. There's no choices. And Salesforce is bitter about that. You can actually tell users what their policies are going to be, when they're going to password, right? So, interesting stuff... But anyway, sorry Evernote, but yeah, I think you just set yourself back a bit, especially when you're trying to go for the enterprise. Next up is a little tizzy on the ID exchange, which I was involved in. There's an ID on the ID exchange called, let's see, actually, oh,

Justin Edelstein: Allow. It's called Allow Approval Comment Merge Fields to be used in all approval related emails. So it's it's a really wordy

Jason Atwood: Thing, but basically when you do an approval and there's all sorts of fields, you want those, you want some of the fields to be thrown into the email.

Justin Edelstein: What you want is the comment. Right.

Jason Atwood: This got rejected because of this. The comment. The comment, the approval comment. Right, the approval comment. And this is. I mean, it's posted a year ago. I can't imagine. They don't tell you how long ago, but I can tell you that it's at least a few years. Shouldn't we see the comments?

Justin Edelstein: Well, no, because the comments still say more than a year. But I was the first person to vote and comment on this idea way back when. I can tell you that that's at least four years ago when I would have. Made that comment on this thing at least four years ago. So it came as a little under misunderstanding.

Jason Atwood: So I posted on this and obviously I was getting some of the emails and then one came up that said it went from under consideration to not planned not planned and. So that's sort of some people would be like, really, really, you're going to do that? Then someone else who's logged in as a Salesforce admin, so their username was Salesforce admin, posted, we can do this via a pay app on the app exchange, what would you pay for it? So then everybody starts going, really, you say you're not going to do this, but then you're going to charge this for us? It turned out that was just someone logging in through their admin, but it was someone on the exchange unit or not a Salesforce person, but then the Product Manager got wind. I played my part because I posted inside of another community to get the product manager to take a look.

Jason Atwood: Then the Product Manager came in and said, oh no, no, no, false alarm.

Justin Edelstein: It's actually under consideration. And on Twitter as well. Yes, and on Twitter. Which brings us a little bit to the... Well I think Shauna, who is the person who posted this on Twitter, is more... Shauna is not the product manager of this, I don't think. She's more an ideas person. Right.

Jason Atwood: Which is good. I mean in some ways it's a good story because it shows that... It shows that they're watching and paying attention. Because that... They're connected. They're connected. They're connected and they're a company D.o Well. Well they do you watch these ideas. Well, they should. Yeah, so this guy named Charles, whatever, we've created a custom solution. What would you really do, pay for it? It's fine. You forwarded that to me. You thought it was funny. Yeah, because I thought it was I thought it was Under consideration is better than not planned. I think one of the comments was funny was like not planned really You're like the company that listens to people you just have to five thousand something votes and more

17:52 Justin Edelstein: Because I know exactly what I was doing when I needed this. Yeah, so at least five years old.

Jason Atwood: So it's nice to have it out there, nice to have people who want it, but go and vote because it's a nice feature. I mean, you don't battle up against it until you need to do it. Then you're like, why can't I get that to come in? So we'll see if they do it. And then the last piece is an article on Mashable. Mashable. That says 30% of all top brands have customer service Twitter, handles which is interesting.

Justin Edelstein: Top 100 based on the interbrand 100, which ranks businesses based on financial status and how the brand influences purchasing decisions and how strong the brand is, whatever that means.

Jason Atwood: 30% of top brands. questions. Hmm Real Low let's do some math here.

Justin Edelstein: Whoa, you'd think more but you know top brands sometimes aren't like aren't always on on top of Like this type of thing because top brand could mean old-school thinking in some ways Like it's not like top and

Jason Atwood: Brands to pop up in the last two years Well, you also could think of brands that you know There are brands that maybe they don't I can think of like mobile Exxon Well, Nike is a consumer base, but they're gonna make oil. What's the what are they gonna support? You don't like your oil support Twitter. Oh, you broke. Yeah. No, it's Nike support Nike Nike

Justin Edelstein: Thing doesn't work MyShoeBroke.com I guess they make consumer electronics too. They make consumer.

Jason Atwood: If you're a consumer company, you want to have a support side. But again, against the article we read last week that was saying people really don't want to go to Twitter for support. They want to go to Twitter to complain. They want to... B and M on the tweet the way that I use Twitter just last week was like a really

Justin Edelstein: Well-done way to use Twitter in the support world. You're saying what you did was well done. I think I think well it worked So let's let's use the proof in the pudding. I Opened a traditional support ticket was getting no traction Went to Twitter at mentioned the company and got a bunch of people to even retweet it and then the company said we'll get on that and then boom support rap was all over it. Like would not leave me alone about it to the point where it was almost the entire entire time. And you had to tweet please tell support to stop emailing. Stop calling me every three minutes. That's funny. But yeah, they were like all over it like went on rice after I tweeted the company and said hey I have this I gave him the I gave him the ticket number.

Justin Edelstein: Yeah, here's this ticket number. It's open For a long time.

Jason Atwood: Well, so forget on it. So for example, I have I didn't do it over Twitter I did on the ID exchange I posted that I was having some trouble with some some support and I posted Twitter I posted the case number and I'm I've been thinking about this for a while. We're gonna do a state of the support. So like a state of the union. Well, there's good examples, examples, and some not so great examples. And we're gonna say company name, so be prepared, and we're gonna talk about support and best practices. And we're not doing this just as consumers, our consumers, but we're gonna do this from three different levels. This could be an interesting podcast. We're consumers and we do a lot of support. That better be interesting. Okay. Well, if you're awake That's time, you know, it'd be nice.

21:55 Jason Atwood: I'm been awake 90% of Justin is pretty good.

Justin Edelstein: It's pretty people calling you out on Twitter.

Jason Atwood: It's not too bad. Anyway, I was going to say, we're going to take this on from three different levels. This is the next podcast, not today, next podcast, but here's the talking point, what we're going to think about. So we are consumers, we do a lot of stuff and we deal from, you know, I do Twitter support. I've done cases on Twitter. at Arkus, we have support. So we actually have to support people and how we do it and what channels we choose in our products and we thought about that. is that we build support systems. So we use Salesforce and build out other people's support systems for Fortune 100. So we don't know a little bit about support. We actually know a lot. So I think it's going to be interesting because we'll take those examples.

Jason Atwood: We'll talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly of support. All support all the time. And maybe I'll give you the heads up. Let's try to make some of our picks about support. Speaking of picks. Let's get to it. There's a segowoo. Segowooey.

Justin Edelstein: And Oh gift cards.

Jason Atwood: Did I give it to you? Probably.

Justin Edelstein: I've given you one of these. You or the partner shell not be renamed gave me a gift card to Dunkin Donuts. dunks as we like to call it or dunks if you're in the north northeast yes and There's. Donuts on the corner on my way to the subway to work My way live yes, where we live where we both live yes We both live, live a couple blocks from this Duncan donuts we do and i passed by every day Not that i love Duncan donuts or would even go in there necessarily like to even get anything but If I had my gift card on me, I'd I'd be more inclined to, on a whim, fly into the Dunkin' Donuts and say, oh, I'm gonna get a donut or a cup of whatever. Right? Right? And now in New York to get a small one, if I want sugar in it, or that's for a whole other.

Justin Edelstein: No, 16 ounces. Whatever. You're not gonna make 16 ounces. So, I was like, you know what, I'm not carrying a Dunkin' Donuts gift card in my pocket or in my wallet. Ever. So I go and I find that they have an app in the iPhone app store. It's the new iPhone app store? Whatever. The iOS app store on my phone. I love when apps integrate with Passbook. So now when I open up my Passbook, I have my Dunkin Donuts card in there. So I just open up Passbook and boom! There's a Dunkin Donuts card in there and so I'm picking the Dunkin app on the iPhone. It also understands location so it knows... So peeps at you constantly. You have a... It doesn't... say oh you're walking past beep but you can open the app and there's a little tab for deals okay and it knows you're near this Dunkin Donuts you can go in there with this deal and get it right now So like 25% off this, buy one, get one free.

26:01 Justin Edelstein: You know, a couple deal, you know, those types of deals. Nothing major, but I need a nice little teaser to get me in the store. That plus the ability to put my gift card in there or if you're a Duncan, like my parents are crazy with Duncan Jones, they go every day. Yeah, so my mom I imagine has like a card But you probably refills or whatever you can set all that up through the app Okay, which is pretty neat. I see and then with passbook you just open up your passbook It has a little like QR code for them to scan and blammo.

Jason Atwood: So so here's the real two chests This is why I'm looking skeptical at you. Okay. Have you tried it?

Justin Edelstein: Have I walked into Dunkin Donuts and tried using it? Yep, no, but I'm really worried about it. It's not gonna work. I know like they're gonna be like, what is that? I almost saw an accent but I'm not doing it I'm worried about it. They're gonna be like, no. They're gonna look at that and they're gonna be like, that's not a card and I have nothing to scan that with. But. And then you're gonna have a fit. And then you're gonna tweet at dunks. I'm gonna have a little bit of a fit and then I'm gonna tweet at them and see how they handle it. So maybe we'll have a support story. Alright, so Duncan with Passbook. Well I'm just, I put with Passbook in there. It's just called Duncan. It's free. See you next time.

Justin Edelstein: Nice. Obviously you have to buy stuff though. It's like a free app, but if you want this functionality of putting it in the password. How do you get the codes in there? You just type them in. Oh god. Yeah. Almost a full great thing. It has like a, yeah, I mean I guess if there was like a scanner on the back of the card or something that would be cool. You just take a picture of it. But you have to like scratch off like the last portion of the code to get to the last few numbers.

Jason Atwood: So maybe that's why they're protecting themselves. Well iTunes, you can now hold up the cards to your eyesight and it automatically recognizes. Oh that's pretty cool. Oh so it's like... That's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah it is. Try it at home. You're going to love it. I might try that. You might try that right now. Someone's got to get me an iTunes gift card. Yes, you got to try it. You'll get one.

Justin Edelstein: Alright. I want to see if I can do that right on my phone. one. Duncan, you can do a phone too. Because I know that I've done, pharmacy refills from the phone, from the Dwayne Reed app. Oh, nice. I haven't picked, which I guess I'm now double picking. Double picking. But you take a picture of the barcode on the prescription bottle. Yeah. If you have a refill left. Yep.?? Or if you get a prescription or something you take a picture on a lot of meds. Yeah That's why I'm sleeping half the time And and they'll they'll put in the refill and then boom you just go to the store and grab it nice I don't go in and wait and double pick Duncan and Wayne

Jason Atwood: Reed mobile apps to two franchises that are a block from our house Yep, both equal distance.

Justin Edelstein: Yeah, probably and might be in the well Dunkin Donuts might be in that top 100 of the brands I wonder if they have a Twitter support.

Jason Atwood: Maybe all coming together. Yeah, it's all coming together. All right. What's your pick? You're gonna blow my mind you said I am going to blow your mind a little bit. Maybe not Probably I don't I don't want to say you don't boy your mind and probably not you're not blowing my so You have been a fan of Pandora Oh, I love Pandora for years. But... But what? You don't pay for it. And you know that the new thing coming out is 40 hours a month they cut you off. No. Why? But I have ads. I'm fine with ads. That's cool. 40 hours a month they're cutting you off.

29:22 Justin Edelstein: Oh, I probably use it for about... Like that's probably where I use it right at about 40 hours. So here's what they said it's going to be about 3%.

Jason Atwood: So here's what I'm saying. So here's what happened. I was in talking about someone to this, I was actually in the gym and I was talking about Pandora. And I'm like, I love Pandora. Actually, actually my trainer, he, in the class, he was playing Pandora. And I was like, I didn't hear a lot of ads. He's like, yeah. I said, do you pay for it? He's like, no, maybe I flipped around, whatever. I said, oh, you know, they're going to lock it off at 40 hours. He's like, He's like, oh, well, maybe you should start to use song set. And I was like, oh, song set, that's interesting. How do you know about that? And he goes, oh, because, because he invented it. And he points over. And so in our building, in the building we live in, this guy, you probably say, well, you don't go to the gym.

Jason Atwood: But if you went to the gym, you see him. I don't have a gym. That was funny. Yeah, no gym. Gym. So there's hilarious. So there's this guy over there doing like pull-ups or whatever and and he goes don't pull-ups Maybe curls okay, and he goes yeah. Hey, I forgot his name He goes yeah, he invented songs up and the guy kind of heard a man popped up He's like, yeah, it's good. I and he's like he's like yeah, it's I said is it like Pandora's like. Yeah, except for it's free Okay, so Pandora no ads. Okay, no limits no money And I was like, I hadn't even tried it. So I said, and he built, he lives in the building and he lives in Long Island City. Like the actual songs is based in Long Island City where we live.

Jason Atwood: So it's like, oh, I gotta go try this. Sure, I have to try it. I know. So I go online and I found, actually it was hard because he had told me the spelling of it. And I was like, I thought it was like Z-O-N-Z. It's S-O-N-G. like song za za za.com right so it's a little tough that that took the longest part so i downloaded the app here's what i like about it and and i i've been using it for like five days so i or since last sunday or saturday so here's why you're gonna like this i'm just going to the website right now yeah well don't let it play in the middle of our podcast because that will be soon my computer's on mute so what here's some nice things One is there's a great iPhone and iPad app, right?

Jason Atwood: So it works, it's universal, it works, you sign in, you're good. Two, no ads, and unlimited playing. You just play, play, play. It does have the limit of how many times you can skip, just like Pandora does, but that's a licensing issue with the music industry, not with them. But here's what's fun about it, it was a little bit of a tweak.

Justin Edelstein: Does it do the whole like get to know me kind of thing and build my station? Thank you for watching.

Jason Atwood: Let me explain. So it's a little bit different. It does allow you to go, yes, no, I like this or don't like this. But what it does, when you first log in, it says, when I first logged in, it's Sunday morning, and it goes, and on the iPhone app, here you should see the iPad app. Well, it's saying it's Thursday evening,

Justin Edelstein: Play music for, working with lyrics, unwinding, working no lyrics. entertaining cool friends hosting a fun cocktail party.

Jason Atwood: So what's different about it is they have created a bunch of about it is because I've now gone, because I used to own Pandora List in the same two playlists over and over again. I listen to the same one. Which is yours, right. This is why you probably will be hard to get you off, but whatever. knows me. It's known me for years. You feel like it knows you. It knows me, it loves me.

32:43 Justin Edelstein: We have a little thing. Yeah.

Jason Atwood: And you get the stupid ads. And you get an out limit. So anyway, it picks your mood. You pick a mood. But I was listening to bluegrass the other day. They're like, what kind of music? It's Sunday. Throw a little banjo in there. Do this. And then they're like, we want this type of music. I said, fine. And then I sat there for 30 minutes just working away, listening to music that I would never have listened to. Sure. Because it kind of... asked me what kind of mood I was in. There's like drinking coffee on Sunday morning mood. There was, it was really cool. It's a nice app. Here's the best part. I started it, I went for a run the other day and used it as my music for going to run. Left my apartment, listened to music all the way through the elevator, down outside, went for a half an hour running back.

Jason Atwood: Played the whole time, I'm fine. So I was like.

Justin Edelstein: You know what songs are play it to something. Yeah, he has airplay as like an airplay it to map TV If I'm gonna push it, I just push it. Oh, I don't. I just use it on the Apple TV. Anyway, songs, give it a shot. It, it is free. I'm gonna give this a shot. I can log in with my Facebook account. Yep.

Jason Atwood: So I can do it. And you should try the iPad app. It's really nice. All right, iPad, iPhone, Universal. I can do it up. Yep, Universal app. All right, I'll be downloading this later. And the interface is great. now it's a great little app and as you know in a big world of this Hey when Pandora starts shutting me down songs of here at COM so anyway that's it that's for that's my pick S-O-N-G-Z-A.com you can find it on all the devices I'm sure I think there's Android as well alright so that's it for the podcast we will be back next week with our state of the support All in, we'll just do that, but then we'll also do some picks and stuff. Remember to go to blog.arcasync.

Jason Atwood: Justin here is at Just Edelstein. I'm at Jason M. Atwood and Arkus is at Arkus Inc. You can follow us there. We actually have Arkus support. How about that? So try that out, maybe. I don't know if we pay attention to it. Yeah, we do. Of course we do. Of course we do. But no one ever tweets this at Arkus Support. That's because our products are so airtight that they don't need to. You know why? Because people rather email.

Justin Edelstein: They do email. And they do. Alright,

Jason Atwood: So, oh, go to iTunes and leave a review. We'd love that. Until next week, we'll be back with another episode. Until then, enjoy those crappy days.

36:01 Justin Edelstein: You