Dreamforce 16 Live - Episode #251 of CloudFocus Weekly

Machine transcript generated in 2026 from the episode audio (Whisper speech-to-text with automatic speaker separation). Speaker labels are automatic and may be wrong in places. Timestamps shown every few minutes.

00:10 Jason Atwood: This is the 251st episode of CloudFocus Weekly for the first week of October 2016. This episode is titled Dreamforce 16 Live. CloudFocus Weekly is brought to you by calling this user. duplicates you'll love clone existing sales procedure with a click of a button by the desktop or in salesforce one mobile available for free on the AppExchange or clone this user comm I am your host Jason Atwood and joining me co-host both of us in our workout gear early in the morning in San Francisco Justin, Elstine, Justin, how you doing? Yeah, workout gear.

Justin Edelstein: Gear being the appropriate word. I didn't work out. Every morning you've gotten dressed in workout gear, but then you haven't actually worked out. It's the only clothing that I bring to Dreamforce that isn't dress clothing. So it's the only clothing you can go down. That you can just hang in the lobby unless I throw on a dress shirt. Speaking of lobbies... Yeah, we're in the lobby. We- we're in the lobby at the Hyatt. At the Hyatt. The Hyatt Regency. This is the official podcasting studio at Dreamforce 2016. The Hyatt Regency and Barcadero.

Jason Atwood: They- they were kind enough to offer us a space to podcast. They wouldn't shut their musak off. You- but yes, you can't hear it. Well, you'll- you'll hear some things back on. You definitely hear like people doing stuff. Like you'll click, you click, click, click. Because if you've been to the Hyatt Regency in San Francisco... Actually all Hyatt's kind of have this this feature as they like to do like a huge interior courtyard This one is space a massive interior courtyard with this fountain and Lobby and bar, but anyway, that's where we are this morning. It is day Three of Dreamforce? Officially. Officially day three. Day three. we... Coming down the stretch. Yeah, so we're basically just gonna wrap up, not wrap up, but talk about stuff we've seen so far.

Jason Atwood: There's more to see today. And, talk about some Dreamforce stuff, because we're here.

Justin Edelstein: Yeah. And we're... and you're still trying to find some sort of... I'm trying to find like a live... Like someone who was live blogging the the keynote for me yesterday Just so that I get all my talking points in order Hike it cuz it's hard. It was a hard to follow and I'm gonna try not to go Too negative on it and my voice is still rather intact for Dreamforce actually, so I'm pretty happy about that But it was a bit scattered so it was hard to follow. They announced like a whole lot of stuff. Very quickly. Very, very rapidly. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Well, let's first take. Lightning speed.

Jason Atwood: Lightning bolt speed. Usain, bolted it. Let's talk some first things first. So the. Again, Dreamforce always an ever-changing beast. It's the biggest and the best ever. It's something like 175 registered attendees. This year, wow, this year they decided to kick off, sort of it's a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, which you know for us Dreamforce people, you know, that means that Generally, they kick off the whole thing with Mark, usually on the first day, but in recent history they've been changing that and breaking out his keynote to the second day and then doing lots and lots of product keynotes, of which there are tons today. So to me, Dreamforce, I think you feel the same way because we talk about this constantly. Dreamforce doesn't really feel like it starts until the keynote. So like it's weird to start it kind of on the halfway through.

03:49 Jason Atwood: But let's talk about first of all, before we get to the keynote, because it was just yesterday, you know, there were a whole bunch of things on Tuesday. The campus is big as always. It's spread out all over the place. A couple changes. The first floor of Moscone West is now the Admin Meadow. Or I guess it's bigger than the Meadow. Yeah, it's got everything. It's got everything. Actually. And I will say, I walked through to it on the first day and I thought, this is actually... I like this. I really love... For all the stuff that might be good or bad, or the stuff that I really enjoyed, I love their branding this year. I love the forest and they've really gone all in. I said to you, they're in the keynote yesterday, when they find something they like, right?

Jason Atwood: So they've, you know, with Trailhead, which is a side, I mean, a percentage of people who use Trailhead who use our customers of Salesforce is probably miniscule, but for some reason, the Trailhead branding has kind of taken over. Salesforce branding. It's like it's bigger than Salesforce branding because everything is about the bear as we'll talk about the keynote Everything's about the little ranger dude and even you know Then the whole place is done up in force theme so everything has trees and nice in

Justin Edelstein: The meadow There's very comforting there are monks. Yeah, there's monks. There's monks. They're amongst the keynote So I, but I really like the meadow this year. There's a meditation section. Couple sessions too about meditation. No, there's like an entire area in Moscone South for meditation. Oh, this podcast today brought to you by Phil's Coffee. Phil's with a Z coffee. First of all, some of the best coffee I've ever had in my life. Now there's definitely people who live in San Francisco or on the west coast that are making fun of you right now. Why? Well, while it might be the best coffee you've ever had in your life, they're like, yeah, that fills. Hahaha.

Jason Atwood: What a joke. Oh, okay. I mean, I don't know. It's all like hand grind right before, I mean, it's pretty fresh.

Justin Edelstein: Not, as you said, not a very scalable solution. No, it's one cup at a time and there's only two people.

Jason Atwood: So... They're grinding. So, back to Dreamforce. Oh yeah. So we arrived Monday night, right? We... We did. We... On an airplane. On my birthday. Yes, on your birthday. Happy bladed. Thanks. How old are you now?

Justin Edelstein: Lot less... a lot younger than you.

Jason Atwood: Yeah, this is the small time of the year that our gap is only nine years. Yes. so, and then Tuesday really, I mean a bunch of different sessions. Did you go to anything fun or see anything fun on Tuesday?

Justin Edelstein: I gotta be honest. Tuesday I visited... the area in the campus just to register, walk through as they were setting up the dream park, right? Just to see what it would look like cause I was really interested ahh, in seeing what Red's presence would look like. And that was about it. I didn't do anything on, on. Thank you. Oh sorry, I did that Monday. Sorry, you asked about Tuesday. Well, Dream, because Dreamforce. Yeah, Tuesday. I really have no no idea what I did on Tuesday. That's the business. I really don't. 251 times. Let's see. You'll get better. Yeah, Tuesday kicked it off with a meeting with My favorite product manager is Evolve Time, former guest, friend of the podcast Adam Dorman. Talked a little bit about his new role or his evolving role with Trailhead as a product manager.

07:33 Justin Edelstein: It'd be a good time to take over Trailhead because Trailhead is taking over. And he's a good product manager so we know that that'll all go well. I then staffed a booth in the admin meadow so talk to the people. Yeah, for two hours.

Jason Atwood: Do the people come up and say, how do I become an security expert?

Justin Edelstein: It was a booth called Be a Security Expert, and the majority of people walked over with an inquisitive look and looked at me and I'm like, hey, how you doing? And they're like, hi, how do we become a security expert? like. Trailhead. Talk to me for a minute. Practice, practice, practice, practice. Here's the pamphlet and set them on in a merry way. So did that. We had a nice Arkus team lunch. Little dim sum. Yeah. Watch the session that... an Arkus employee delivered, which was nice. It was buttery and smooth.

Jason Atwood: It was buttery and smooth. So by the way, up on the blog, I will only promote the blog today once because up on the blog is blog.salesforce.com. There is a, sorry, wrong blog, that arcus.com.com. because it the dreamforce. I did write a blog post about all the sessions. There are a couple today that our clients are speaking on. A couple have already happened. And we both did. Our booth duties, you can't see us there.

Justin Edelstein: Yeah, sorry. We're podcasting now, so you can't find us now. And you wouldn't want to find us. We're sitting in the lobby at the house. And one of us is extremely sweaty. We're not going to do it though. You're terrible. Oh, okay. Let's get a little closer. And then I spent the rest of the day Tuesday over in the.org. over at the West in St. Francis. Yep, set up really nicely. Yep, probably the best set up that the Dot org slash foundation has ever had at a Dreamforce. It's full on fully on brand. It's totally trail headed up. You're in the forest. You see the fake, it's like a cabin. You got rocks that you can sit on. It's really cool. Yeah, I mean they did a nice job there. I got to give them credit.

Justin Edelstein: So but overall, I don't think that's a theme that's been really well-branded. Dreamforce has been well-branded. I will say I haven't really attended many substantive... sessions so I don't really know a whole lot about I haven't gotten a good feeling for what's really going on inside of that huge like trailhead I don't want to call it the admin meadow because it's not it's like the developer whatever forest and the mobile this and the IOT that And then there's the Einstein area up top and we'll talk about Einstein in a minute. And there's like the lightning range or whatever it's lightning lodge or whatever it's called.

Jason Atwood: That came up in the keynote and I think we should highlight it. So lightning for anybody who's, I mean, if you're going to listen to this podcast, you know what lightning is.

10:42 Justin Edelstein: Well, you might be. Thanks for downloading and we'll talk to you in another later day. So, Lightning's the rebuilding of their, of the Salesforce front end.

Jason Atwood: Was released last year at Dreamforce. We've talked about the pros and the cons. We talked about how I personally feel is a bit of a marketing problem because they didn't do it as beta It was full of bugs. It was not full of features But you know, it's one of the things that Salesforce knows that is not being adopted Well, I can tell you that I just know that by even stats for our own clients. So they have this area That you can go and it's basically like one-on-one sessions with people to help you. You figure it out You can use lightning or not how

Justin Edelstein: To get there how to get there because I know our org if we ran that little Are you lightning ready thing? It's gonna say no you are not.

Jason Atwood: It says no you're not and here's the stuff you have to do. So which isn't ready. So it's like okay I'm not gonna do it until that stuff is ready. Again winter 17, I was in a winter 17 or yesterday doing demos and the nav and the stuff in the nav, the drop down, I was like I'm very happy with that. That's gonna get me to. I know you're huge on the nav. Nav is. Because it's it's how you use the system.

Justin Edelstein: You're so you're- you're so hung up on that nav.. There's so much more.

Jason Atwood: That is so interesting. It's so off-putting that I can't Like, so that that to me, me is

Justin Edelstein: I'm literally, The only season was featured, Christy Guzman, thank you. We went and supported that, handed out two. And... Just swag-alicious. And went on our merry way. Well that was right. And then we went to the keynote.

Jason Atwood: So I was going to flip back. We actually had an event.

Justin Edelstein: People don't care about our events. People have events.

Jason Atwood: We had a party, it was awesome. and mobile admin name. And then I just basically have a spiel and I go into, well, here's two apps you can use, blah, blah, blah. But then everybody wants to be scanned because I guess there's the thing you can get. Yes, you can win stuff and you can get a sweatshirt, or whatever. It reminded me of us of having our own booth, which we ave up years ago, but that people would come up just to listen to you for five seconds so they could get some cool piece of swag. the I the, I prospectivey..........., H I, It's in the, they switched it this year.

15:11 Justin Edelstein: They switched the All things were I think they're generally the same size keynote room was. There was a much more intimate keynote room that has been in the room. It reminded me of going way back and they still do the thing in the circle now so it's not just like a stage in the front and then just so it's in the round and it just It felt a little more intimate. That will happen when you're sitting sort of right up front. Right. Like we do because we're awesome. And I'm humble bragging? Well, anyway, I'm just speaking the truth. It's too early for you. Yeah, and so it kicks off with the ambassadors. That's great. Then some little talking points about the company which typically does. Oh, you're skipping over. I thought the kind of the...

Justin Edelstein: You have to give me a little will. Well, that came after, didn't it? No, he did that before Mark came out. Oh, Will. Will. I. Am. came out before? Yeah. Okay, Will. I. Am. did it. Listen, he's an impressive fella. For whatever you think about, like his, like... Because he didn't come back up with Mark after. Yeah, he came back. Yeah, sorry. So... He is an impressive guy, like the things that he does for his community, other communities, the philanthrop- I feel like he's a protege of Mark, not a tech guy, but believes in it. Believes in tech, believes in STEM, believes in engineering, believes in robotics, believes in getting into this field. and puts his money where his mouth is, which is very commendable. If you believe in something and you go for it and you speak out on it, that's very, very commendable.

Justin Edelstein: I gotta give the guy credit. I'm not a huge Black Eyed Peas fan. I don't think he's incredibly talented as a musician or as anything rather than just a spokesperson, but he's used his fame for good and that is really cool. Like use your fame for good. Don't be a Kardashian. like that's sort of my thing, right? Meanwhile, Kardashians were in that video, but that's neither here nor there.

Jason Atwood: So he basically was highlighting education as a massive way to help lots of the problems and that, you know, in our society from, you know, poverty to racism. that helping the gap between where the inner cities get money to go to school and where and we're out of inner cities so they don't have the resources. So he personally, I think he... started by adopting, I'm sure it's not adopting legally, but adopting financially, kids. It was like 56 kids. Sixty something. 60-something kids where he then would help them fund their way through education.

18:39 Justin Edelstein: So helping them. And getting degrees. Yeah. D&D. DDS did not double these not double these double these is what you don't want You do not want a degree in debt Oh degree in debt. Sorry death is inevitable. That the is Debt though, right? You don't want debt so he know very commendable and studies are like up to 400 yeah and You know, Mark put it out there to challenge people, hey, go walk into your public school in your community. Go talk to the principal and ask them what you can do to help them. He's like, trust me, they have a list, they gave me the list,

Jason Atwood: I have a list. I would say the start, I mean, again, as someone who helped out with the public school for years. You know, that's the best way I think to start. Don't, you don't even have to be on the PTA, but I've been on the PTA for four and a half years. And I.ll tell you, you don't have, have to have the principal, I mean, in my, school, would have said, goes on to the PTA. We need to help the school, help the PTA. If there isn't a PTA, well then help get a PTA started.

Justin Edelstein: The organization is that fundraise for the school. They'll be okay with it. They're here to see me, not my clothing. Yes, well it's the internal meeting, but okay. Moving on. No one needed to know what it was. Could have been the most important. Oh, you and I are meeting. I'm not meeting with you. So there were so many announcements. I mean, Einstein the big one And we'll just come back to Einstein in a minute. So there was one one I think that kind of went. under the radar that I super cool which was the messaging. So the consumer app being the UI for the consumer, to talk to users of Salesforce. So think bots. So Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp. just Twitter with the DMing just all of the apps that are out there these days that are consumer messaging apps, Salesforce, building a messenger messenger to building the ability to tap into those.

Justin Edelstein: To those apps as just front ends to talk directly to users inside of Salesforce. A little crazy, right? And say, that's not fast enough. And let, let's move that into WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger or whatever. there's all these messengers out there and oh yeah

21:45 Jason Atwood: The Deaf female it's probably never going to happen like faxes are still being faxed but the you know and your use of iMessage and text and our use of Slack and WhatsApp is going and WhatsApp I mean it's all moving into these other things and I think it's pretty cool I didn't see anything about it like for four seconds I haven't read up on it I don't know nothing about it was a blip in the See you next week.

Justin Edelstein: In the announcements in the keynote, but it caught my eye as something that was like, whoa, that's interesting. What about commerce cloud? So well, that's been big and known for a while. I have no idea where it's at. I mean, again, this messenger thing, I know it's not. a real thing right now. Right, like I can say that with certainty, like go try and spin that up right now and see what happens. Commerce Cloud, I'm pretty certain you, I'm. Cause it was an existing company, it was demand ware. So like, sure, I'm certain there are plenty of online commerce stores that are. being run on demand way. How integrated are they into Salesforce? I have no clue. Probably very slightly.

Jason Atwood: I thought that was, again, overall on the keynote. And I do it every time. And I just roll my eyes. I love the stuff when they get in. We'll talk about the three companies that they. They talk about one a lot, but But when they get into those I feel like they don't like to highlight the new stuff anymore It's because there's so much new stuff and all stuff goes in these keynotes that are spread out all over. So I feel like a lot of Great stuff gets lost

Justin Edelstein: But let's get to the let's get to the two things I mean demand where just so this will lead us in time time so demand where right so the ability to spin up an e-commerce and I'll talk about it. The ability to spin up an e-commerce site or website or community, whatever, leading us right into Einstein where you can... What is is an e-commerce site without recommending the next thing to buy? Or based on your previous purchase history, you should probably buy these things too. Or maybe you might want to bundle this thing with that thing. where the artificial intelligence comes in, over a billion dollars and acquisitions over the last year or two, come in, they have, when I say they, as far as have quadrupled down on all in on AI, like all in on deep learning, machine learning, artificial intelligence, anything like.

Justin Edelstein: We take all these sources of data, CRM being a little itty bitty piece.

Jason Atwood: Big for them, but yes in the world, right?

Justin Edelstein: IOT being big. But, even in their thing, it's like Salesforce, but then it's like grab all your email. Here, shove your emails in there. Shove your calendar. Shove your calendar events in there. shove, shove your IOT stuff if you have it or your social accounts at least in there shove all, just give us your data. We'll take it, we'll do the hard stuff. Right. And then you click a few buttons, and all of a sudden it's like, do these things. Right. And by the way, send this email, and here's the email you should actually send.

25:06 Jason Atwood: Pre-written for you. Pre-written, templated. Not, yeah, but not templated like you had to write the template, templated like we just came up with what you should- a should be writing. We, we came to send, you could change it. I mean.

Justin Edelstein: From a, from a, from a editor right in, right in the lighting experience.

Jason Atwood: I've seen a couple of demos, and the demos that they do that are sort of the ones that make sense, make it not seem like it's doing a lot of work. It seems like just if this, then that statement type of stuff. But I know that first of all this is just the beginning of it. And for people in, you know, for people in support where it's where it knows how long, right where it's pre predetermining tickets are cases based on data it sees, where it knows how long things will take to close, where in sales it's scoring scoring things, telling you the probability of opportunities, telling you what you need to do next based on prior things and win-loss. I mean, I think the... I will say the limit of what this thing could do in a CRM or a service or marketing cloud is kind of endless and if it kind of has the direction that that you know you amazing amazing you know they could I know this is gonna be bold but I feel like Salesforce could crush a whole space that is kind of just starting and they could be at the head of it.

Jason Atwood: But having them do it and put it out in the API and allowing you to use to call AI engines inside your own app that you launch on the platform. Geez, that's massive. And my brain just kind of explodes with the kind of stuff you could do.

Justin Edelstein: Anyway, I thought that was just... It's going to be very interesting when you can start to apply it to very specific... business use cases. Tell me what they don't have. I need to know what they don't have and what the best thing for them to actually have next would be. Like that is a tough nut to crack and if you have an engine that can really ingest all this data plus your email so like it knows you've been sort of talking about something or they let a customer let you know that an event occurred and then Einstein's just like I know that.

Jason Atwood: Here, this is the next thing to do. Well think about something that we built, right? So we built a profitability engine once for our clients. We did. And we did it based on a lot of data and things and tying it up to create this profitability. Like profitability is what you own, right? But the other side of profitability... that I think could be really interesting is how far you can see the profitability of this household, the person is X, but what you really want to know is what could this profitability be? What could it be in the future if we put in our effort? So don't focus on these clients even though they look like they're profitable. I focus on this one because it's not, but it has so much farther.

28:38 Justin Edelstein: We'll have like under the covers obviously. There's like this score my lead. How'd you do that?

Jason Atwood: Magic. And I think that's what they want to leave it. I think that's because it is such a it's such a sort of just difficult thing to wrap your head around because you know AI but there's so much stuff going on in the back. I like the way they've kind of simplified it. I'm not excited about the way they're damn That's the idea of it, right? It should be learning the whole time. Well, it should, but your lead school, right, it's not just what you have now. It's gonna learn and change as time goes on. So, besides a bear in your data center eating your wires. Which could happen.

Justin Edelstein: Part of the demo, again, they just can't seem, they don't listen to responses. They can't get out of their own way. They can't get out of their own way. They can't make demos that just make sense. Alex Dayone always does the demo that. gets me to leave. Alex Deon's the closer for me. He's the one that gets me to walk out. Sorry Alex, they give you the crappy, the oaky stuff.

Jason Atwood: I know they're trying to dumb this thing down because AI is, again, it's not something that's easy just to talk about and be like, oh, this is how it works. It's complex stuff.

Justin Edelstein: So. dumbing it down by having you know virtual Einstein show up on the stage and having a bear eat a thing. That was a little weird for the people people in the room like I was watching the stage where Einstein wasn't. Einstein was not. Mark's standing there, Parker's standing there and there's something in the middle. Let's finish up.

Jason Atwood: We can do that. Right now, because you have four minutes.

Justin Edelstein: I got some time. I think someone's going to be a little like... Oh, okay. So,

Jason Atwood: Let's finish up with, actually, one of the first things. So, they high-oated three companies. Yes. One just happens to be a current client of ours. Yes. Who you're extremely excited about. Very. And I think some, you know, it's, it is my favorite part, and I say this, but... All honesty and all like not being around the bush dream for us for all the product stuff And you know my second favorites catching up with people kind of the alumni factor family reunion You know Hana H Ih. I did that in a lot of ways all over Dreamforce this year. They are one of the two, I guess two major people in the, what are they called? The Dreamfast Dream area, Dream Lounge,

Justin Edelstein: Dream... What, the Dream Park? Dream Park. Red is out there and then Project Open Hand will also be out there. Both are speaking today, by the way. They're speaking together in a session. That's cool. But Red... I think it's at about four o'clock in actually... Thank you. 4 o'clock at the the West in St. Regis in Salon A. If you haven't signed up, look for that area. You might not be able to get on there. By the time you get this podcast in. Oh yeah, by the time you hear this, that'll be over.

31:49 Jason Atwood: So maybe. So talk a bit about Red and their mission and what they presented on stage.

Justin Edelstein: Well first of all, I mean I know a lot about it because I've been working with them for a little bit. When you saw the video and how they talked about what red did did you get a good sense for what they're all about? And what they're trying to do and how they go about it and then read that's good Right that that's good because I think the global fun gets sort of Walk like washed away in the in the in the muck and they shouldn't because they're important Well, they're the ones doing the very the one doing the work right doing the work And listen, Red's doing the work too. They're all doing the work. Red is a small team. It gets very... I think people think Bono. And they're like, and it's a big brand.

Justin Edelstein: People know the Red brand and they think, oh, that's a big nonprofit. No. They're a small team. They run very lean and they're very good at what they do which is create a really a, really cool recognizable brand. And they partner with really cool recognizable companies to make really cool product. And it's essentially a license. You know, you go to Apple, you want to buy the product red. I'm pointing because I'm wearing the red Banned on a sport band on my Apple watch or you want to get the cover for your iPhone Awesome, they partner with Apple and you buy that product and proceeds go to Red now They kind of pass through and they go to the global fund, which is really the global fund was very under Let's call it underfunded before Bono and I hate this, I can't remember the person who he started it with came in and started red to sort of front-end the global fund and make make the mission more accessible to the everyday person.

Justin Edelstein: It's not like donate money to the global fund to help fight AIDS. Right. Okay, if that's your passion, that's exciting. But if it's buy this cool shirt And by the way, proceeds will go to It's a totally different paradigm, like four or five different kinds, women's selling mofie juice pads, all this red stuff, all those molesk. Pads, you know, those really cool, also you write note pads. a few other things out there and they've got tons of other partners. They have a lot of partners. It's really cool. But you can also go to Dreamforce.com-red and donate as many dollars as you'd like. And the cool part that they announced yesterday is they're trying to raise a million dollars. The Illinois and the Gates Foundation came in and said we'll match it. As a matter of fact we'll double match you.

35:38 Justin Edelstein: So if you donate $100 that's a $300 donation. And then Mark and Lin-Bain said we'll throw in a million dollars. So the goal is now $4 million raised. is add Dreamforce. to help prevent the spread of HIV and AIDS. And you can see it's great because there's no mission creep. It's sub-saharan Africa. Trying to solve a specific problem from mother to unborn child. And let's tie this up in a nice bow because it came right right right. Why would you bother with a child? a girl. who was born with AIDS, why would you even bother educating them? They're just a wasted human, and that is not the way to think about things. That is not a wasted human. We can save lives. We can do things the right way. We can educate these women and these girls, I do have a meeting.

Jason Atwood: It's the part of it with their. Not on product, not on Einstein. A great great great done it yet. Still the next couple days. The matching is incredible. That's incredible matching. That just doesn't happen nowadays. And sometimes you can even get your company. So check with your company because sometimes they'll match as well. So think about that. Thanks for everybody who came up and greeted us during the... during turn times, we've come by and said, you know, one person said they were inspired by our podcast. Yeah. Well, thank you. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Nice to be heading on to the next 250. It'll be really exciting someday. It was at $300,000 yesterday. It's at $600,000 today. Go read all the tons of things that we just like I like to go look at some of these products I haven't Right get so like go to the side booth.

Jason Atwood: Yes. Oh, yes lack and self-sourced integration. We talked about that next week No, that's a cool thing And we also have winter 17 to catch up on so tons of stuff We'll be back next-neck neck just a listing at Jason Atwood at Arca sync remember on facebook.com slash Arca sync and,, that, I I, I to