Cloudy Questions, Easy Answers - Episode #5 of CloudFocus Weekly

Machine transcript generated in 2026 from the episode audio (Whisper speech-to-text with automatic speaker separation). Speaker labels are automatic and may be wrong in places; unidentified voices are shown as "Speaker N". Timestamps shown every few minutes.

Cleaned 2026-10-14: misheard names and product terms corrected; wording otherwise unchanged.

00:11 Jason Atwood: This is the fifth episode of CloudFocus Weekly, the second week of August 2010. This episode

Justin Edelstein: All right.

Jason Atwood: So we have a little quick agenda. We're actually doing an early podcast this week because the week filled up before it even got going. So, but that doesn't matter because the cloud news always is happening. So we're gonna talk about three things today. There's a new article called Why Are 3D TVs in Chatter More Similar Than 3D TVs in Google Wave? Which is a kind of a good follow up from some of the Google Wave stuff that happened last week. Then I was surfing around and found this one from, it's called Five Popular Questions on Cloud Computing. It came out of a cloud camp where they asked all these different people, what's your top five questions? So we'll actually go and answer those. We're not even going to go to the answers that they provided because, yeah, I don't really care. We're going to go to the answers that we would provide if they were talking to us. And then we're also going to talk a little bit about nonprofits now that they're using cloud. Just a quick little update on the podcast. So it's the fifth podcast now. And so we've done a few little changes.

Jason Atwood: We changed the logo so that you should notice, hopefully in the next time you upgrade or through iTunes or whatever. And we also changed the title. So it is now CloudFocus Weekly with a capital F. We just thought since we are actually gonna do it weekly, it'll keep us to weekly and it rolls off the tongue easier. What do you think?

Justin Edelstein: I mean, nothing like putting it in your title to make you do a weekly. It's true.

Jason Atwood: I mean, we were going to do CloudFocus hourly, but just all the post-production

Justin Edelstein: that's called, that's called Twitter. That is called Twitter.

Jason Atwood: Speaking, no, let's not do it. So let's talk about the first article. Um, uh, why are 3D TVs and Chatter more similar than 3D TVs and Google Wave? And this really comes about from, it's a blog post on Force.com platforms. comes from Salesforce. It's basically comparing the difference between why do some things succeed and why do some things not succeed. What I liked about this one was, although I'm still very upset about Google Wave and I'm fighting it with every tweet I can, what I like about this is that he makes the analogy that Chatter, which is Salesforce again for everybody who's just brand new to this, Salesforce's sort of internal social networking. You do statuses and profiles and groups, but you do it all within Salesforce. And you know, a lot more to it than that. But, and 3D TVs, and you know, Chatters gonna survive because Salesforce basically is running it and it's part of their platform.

03:22 Jason Atwood: In fact, they've embedded it into everything, so it would almost be hard to pull out than it would just to keep going. And what he's saying is that 3D TVs will survive because even though it's a new technology, and it's based on something that people understand. And right, because we go to 3D movies, you go to 3D movies, I know you actually-

Justin Edelstein: I do, I love 3D movies.

Jason Atwood: I actually don't like 3D movies. I find that the ones that are sort of made, made for 3D movies like Avatar or shot 3D, awesome. 3D movies that are washed afterwards and made 3D like, oh, here comes an ax, whoa, no, those aren't very good. What he's saying is that 3D TVs, because people already understand the value proposition of 3D. They go to a movie, they pay, you know, here in New York it's $12.50 for a movie, it's $19.50 if you're going to a 3D movie. So we already understand, okay, there's a, it's more valuable, I want it, I need it. So when you move that from the big cinema down to smaller screen TVs, people are really going to go, oh, okay, I'll pay for it, I understand why I'm going to get it. So he's saying Chatter, which is based on sort of social networking and Facebook and which is easy to understand, unlike Google Wave, which really doesn't have some other piece to it. It doesn't have something you can compare and go, oh, I get that. You could try to compare it to instant messenger, that doesn't really work.

Jason Atwood: You can try to compare it to notes, it doesn't really work. You can try to compare it to email, that doesn't really work. It doesn't really have a really good comparison because it is sort of paradigm breaking. Anyway, I thought it was a good article and hopefully, you know, what were your thoughts on it?

Justin Edelstein: Well, I think you summed it up rather well with your analogy, or their analogy, of 3D TVs and them taking that to people who know 3D and then saying, well, half a billion people know status updates and news streams so they know what this thing is before they get into it, however scary it might be to open up the kimono, if you will, at your company and put a social network out there. Google Wave is sort of, to me it reminds me of the the Innovators Dilemma that that book by, his last name is Christensen, I can never remember the first name, but when do you know when to do something new and different when something that already exists is working well? And that thing that already exists that's working well is things like email, things like social networking, and Google Google Wave was Google's attempt, as they always do, to try and do something radical and different. And in this case, I firmly believe that it worked. It was something that changed the game for Arkus and our company and how we communicate and collaborate with each other. But there was no go-to-market strategy. There was no, this is what this is. And this is what you can compare it to because you know this, so now you're going to know this. couldn't even explain it. They would choke on themselves by saying it's this, it's that, it's this, it's I am, it's chat, it's email, it's message board, it's real time, it's social,

06:34 Jason Atwood: it's... It's too much. It is a little too much for the amateur. And it's not well marketed. I think that's where, it's almost, it's actually, I'll make another analogy to HD DVD, HD DVD and the difference between HD DVD and Blu-ray. Now I could have sworn HD DVD was gonna win, because I think it was combining two things that people understand. DVD, which we've had for however many years, 10, 15 years, and HD, high definition. And I thought combining the two then made anybody who understood the two things, could put them together and go, oh, I get it. It's like DVD, but better. Now Blu-ray, I actually thought was a horrible name for something, it means nothing. It's actually supposed, I think it's the name of, it's a blue laser that's in this thing It allows it to pack all the data in there. And yet it won. It won probably because a company was behind it, put millions and millions and millions, probably up into the billions, in advertising of it and pushed it very, very hard. None of that stuff happened with Google Wave. Thus why I think it, you know, they had problems with it.

Jason Atwood: You know, just, I was actually sitting here thinking, okay, 3D TV, that makes sense, right? It's a three-dimensional television. It's two things you understand. Why not name Google Wave something like email2?

Justin Edelstein: Yeah, that would have made sense because what they thought would work was what worked with Gmail. Where they just put it out and then said, oh, this is just a little different user interface on top of something that you already know. It's going to work a little different within the browser and it's going to be cool and hip and you have to have an invite to get in. And I think they thought Google Wave would do the same. But people already knew email and they just wanted better email. And that's what Gmail gave them. It was email, but better, more storage, better features for free, etc. Wave didn't make that comparison. There was no, like this blog post says, there was nothing to compare it to. There was no 3D television. There was no Facebook to Salesforce's Chatter. There was no X to Google's wave.

Jason Atwood: And that is marketing. that is marketing and brand positioning, that is not reality. Reality is whatever marketing wants to make it. You know, is 3D TV really 3D? I mean, yes, I guess. Is Blu-ray really, Blu-ray is nothing, but if someone just puts enough units out there, it puts enough money, sometimes these things take hold. I don't feel like Google put enough money into it. I don't think they put enough advertising. I don't think they actually went back and thought, thought about it as a product and how we can monetize it. To be exact, they never put ads in it, right? They never put ads in it. They never did any advertising around it. I mean, you can't go anywhere without seeing Google App ads or Google Gmail ads. I never did that for Google Wave. So I mean, again, I think if they had really thought about it, come back to it differently, maybe just include it in Gmail, right? Instead of making it a different product, why not just make it like, you know, Google Notes in Gmail? Anyway, so that's, that's, that is good article. I think, you know, it's short, sweet, but I think, you know, brings sort of what we're getting into, you know,

09:40 Jason Atwood: And it's interesting, I think it's the first time we get to look at something that's kind of not worked in the cloud, and that's cool, because it's, in some ways it proves the theory, where you have the outliers. All right, so second one, second article, was five popular questions on cloud computing. So here's what we're gonna do, there are five. And I'm gonna, why don't we just split them up, and I'll take the first one, or I'll take the second one, you take the first one, and then we'll go from there. And I think these are, in some ways, they're good questions because they're people who don't understand cloud computing. They're kind of openers. So let's start with the first one. I'll ask the question, you give me the answer. How's that?

Justin Edelstein: Do I get to ask the second one and you get to give the answer?

Jason Atwood: Yes, yes. I like that. Just because you're the co-host. All right. So the question number one was, and again, these were compiled from people at a cloud computing seminar. What was their kind of like, top questions? Question number one, how do I know where my data is for regulation purposes?

Justin Edelstein: You know, I think the answer to this is as simple as you ask. When you sign up with a cloud provider, you can ask them. You have SLAs in place, obviously, for certain pieces that you want protected for your own data. Essentially, you can ask them. You can say, hey, I have this regulatory requirement that says I'm not allowed to have data outside of this country or et cetera. And you know, you ask them, where's my data physically being stored? Can I take a tour of your data center, et cetera. And it's pretty much as simple as that. I, I, I'm, I'm sure with some cloud providers, they even publish on their websites where their data centers are located and where your data might be housed. Yeah.

Jason Atwood: And it's, it's really a simple, it is very simple as, you know, cloud computing does not just mean, oh, it's up in the sky somewhere. but they're actually still sitting somewhere. I think the thing you want to add into that question is, where is my data stored, and where is the backup to that data, and where is the hot, you know, the hot swap of it? So where's the disaster recovery on that? So make sure you ask the two parts of it, because where are my data stored, that's kind of, that's generic. Go deep and say, where's my production data that I'm hitting every day? And then if that data were to go away, and I know you have backups because you're a cloud, you're a good cloud provider, where are those backups, and where are that, Where is that data and that DR disaster recovery? Go ask me the number two. Sure.

Justin Edelstein: Who is responsible for patching virtual servers rented in the cloud?

Jason Atwood: Yeah, so this is kind of interesting because it does speak to cloud computing because cloud computing is made up of virtualization. It's one of the sort of key cornerstones of cloud computing. But in some ways it's like saying, how much RAM is on the server, or what kind of RAID array, or how fast are the drives. It's getting down into, it's getting too deep into the architectural stack, which we love to talk about, of cloud computing to say, you know what, actually in a very good cloud computing service, and certainly the ones that we're most familiar with and the ones we talk about the most, you shouldn't care. They're gonna do it, right? That's actually what you do to, that's why you pay them a license. And part of your licensing and part of what you're paying cloud computing providers do is to make sure you're never thinking about virtual servers and thinking about who's patching them or even what operating system they're on. I mean, there's some cloud computing companies that you get deeper into the stack, you know, that you can do more, but in some ways you should be abstracted from that.

13:19 Jason Atwood: If you really want the scalability, if you really want the ability to, you know, do what your business does best, you know, asking about virtual server patching is kind of, you know, it's almost getting a little too deep. So the answer is a cloud computing provider is responsible, but I think you should also redefine what you're using cloud computing for if you're looking at the patching level. So then number three was, how do I know my cloud provider can scale?

Justin Edelstein: Am I answering this one? Yes, you are. Okay, so again, I'll talk to, you know, before you sign on, and if you're that large of a company or organization where you need to know that your cloud provider can scale with you. You're gonna wanna ask them, who are your biggest clients? What are the volumes of data that you're handling as far as those largest clients are concerned? Have you ever handled this level of data volume? Do you have high throughput with your API, et cetera? And you're gonna wanna make sure, again, I'll go back to the SLA, that those types of volumes that you yourself are anticipating are brought up upfront when you're looking to sign a contract and saying, I'm looking to scale at this rate. You need to scale with me, sign on, sign on on or sign off on that kind of thing. Essentially, again, my answers are, you really just have to ask.

Jason Atwood: And I think do some homework, the other one is, you know, make sure that, that, you know, I would want to see in a cloud provider a lot of transparency about what's up and what's down. You know, finding that more and more cloud providers are publishing some sort of place, whether that be Twitter actually has a page now, again, again, sort of social networking.

Justin Edelstein: Google, Google has one for their apps. Salesforce has one for their entire service.

Jason Atwood: The Rackspace has one that basically say, if you were having trouble, go here. So I would want to go there. And I'd want to look at their history. They should have a history. And you should be able to ask that question of, what is your uptime? Because if anybody doesn't say three nines, it's basically, they're gonna lie. Because everybody wants to be at three nines. But it's more, and that's 99.9 for everybody out there. But basically you want to say, What's the track record? And then, again, I think it's about being very honest with the provider to say what you want to do with it. If you want to put 10 people on a service, fine. If you're putting 10 people today and you're putting 300 or 5,000 tomorrow and you're not telling them that, then that's probably where you hit scalability issues. And then ask around because everybody will have a story about what happened with them. And then see what the track record, how long they've been in business. That'd be another thing I'd look for. Okay, all right, you asked me, oh wait, yeah, ask me the next one.

Justin Edelstein: Hey, you just keep answering all the questions. It's good, it's good, you have good answers. How do I get my data back if my cloud provider goes broke?

16:22 Jason Atwood: That's actually a really good question, and I would almost think that one, and where is my data, not for regulatory, but who owns my data is probably the number one question that is not even in this list. The answer should always be, Yeah, you can get it back in a number of different ways. And your answer should be, you shouldn't be looking, you know, waiting for them to go broke to know that you can get it down. It's like backup. And you and I have talked about backup, you know, offline and not on this podcast, but you know, a backup system is only as good as your ability to test it. And so while I can think that my data is okay because it's backed up somewhere, if I've never actually tried to get that data back from my backup system, then it's no good because I don't know that I can get it back. Same thing with this is like, if you're gonna wait to the point where it's, where the company goes broke to get your data back, yeah, you're not gonna do well. How about this? Ask the cloud provider when you start off to say, I wanna have some sort of ability to take my data out at any period of time. And how can I do that? And what formats do you give it to me? Do you put it on a disc and ship it to me? Do you put it on a, you know, can I download it? Are they in zip files? How often can I do it? Can it be scheduled so I don't have to remember to do it? Ask these questions, and then you should have that ability. So before they go broke, and you should be testing it, you should make sure that you're doing it as part of your normal business cycle. And then again, a company that goes broke generally won't just fall off a cliff. It won't be like Monday, you log in, you're cloud computing, and Tuesday you log in, it's like company broke. You should be warning signs, and any good company, even when they're going broke, will say, okay, we're going broke. here's your data, come get it in the normal way that you've been testing over the last couple months. All right, so number five. I'll ask you and then we'll both hit it out of the park. What are the key due diligence points we'll get when signing a contract with a cloud provider?

Jason Atwood: It's basically a sum of all four.

Justin Edelstein: Yeah, you know, I was just gonna say it sort of sums up all the different topics that we've been talking about. where is my data stored, where is it backed up, how fast if one

Jason Atwood: you know one

Justin Edelstein: production environment goes down, how fast am I swapped over to the other environment again SLAs are key, you want to have strong SLAs in place for certain key services that you're going to have as the as the as it relates to the provider you obviously want to know you know as far as scalability is concerned, you know, I'm just sort of reading down these topics. As far as scalability is concerned, can this cloud provider scale with you as you grow, as you grow to number of users, as you grow to, you know, amounts of data that you're putting into a system? Have they done it before? Ask around for their top clients. You know, I would even fish around on the social networks and look for some bad clients, clients who have bad things to say about about the cloud service provider and see if you could connect with them. I'm sure that they'd be happy to talk to you about their experience with with the provider. You want to look at the

19:43 Justin Edelstein: different levels of support that they can provide and the different levels of transparency within that support that they can provide. So do they have a premier support or you know a platinum support that you could go to for your specific needs if you're x size customer versus y size customer. Those are the types of points I would look at. I'm sure there are more that you can think of.

Jason Atwood: Yeah I think one of the things I would this is one of the things that night this is sound a little bit self-serving but I think you should really be looking at you really be looking at when you're going to a club of a service you're probably using someone to help you get there. And it's those people when you're going and during that process, you know, the companies that can really help you go through these points. Because again, it depends on what you want to do with it. You know, what you're using it for, what business process you're using it for, and how key that is to your business. You know, is it okay that something goes down for a day or an hour or a second? Almost no provider is, you know, 100% uptime. uptime, even some of the best providers still go down unscheduled and go down scheduled. And so, you know, if you're doing call center type stuff, you know, weekend downtime is sometimes no good. So how are they going to handle that situation? And so I think it's, you know, it's a matching up of what you're trying to achieve on your business, from your business side to what the cloud provider offers. And then yeah, all these questions, where's my data? How can I back it up? Who owns it? What's the contract? What's the support level like and what does everybody else in the world say about this provider? How long you've been around? What's your track record? All that kind of stuff. You know, the same questions I think you would ask if you're going to buy a car too, really. You know, how long you've been making cars? What's the support level on this car? So, good questions, sort of. Very kind of generic. I'm surprised the number one question wasn't who owns the data because that's usually the number one question. Who owns my data? And the answer was always you. You always own your own data and if anywhere in the contract it says you on your data don't sign the contract. You should always own it fully and outright. It should be stored in their services but you should always own it. All right so next topic or last topic before we get out of this Monday here is talking about non-profits and this one this one I will hand over to you before I wrestle it back. So you know this is about you know we like to add in a little bit of sort of what we're doing and we are actually do work with a lot of non-profits but you know it's how are nonprofits using the cloud and you actually came from a nonprofit and work with you know aren't a lot of the nonprofits that we have as clients so talk a little bit about nonprofits in the cloud yeah so

Justin Edelstein: the cloud is very important to nonprofit success because nonprofits while they do make money and do have budgets and some of them are very very large you know Teach for America is a very large organization of I think two to three thousand employees so it's you know a pretty decent sized company. They do need to make you know do more with less and the cloud is sort of the the way for them to be able to optimize their processes within the organization without owning a lot of IT assets that that aren't really core to their mission. It lets them do the things that are core to their mission without, you know, needing certain expertise levels for IT infrastructure and things of that nature. So some of the things that we've seen nonprofits use the cloud for, obviously number one is email. Services like Gmail, nonprofits can use for free.

23:28 Justin Edelstein: They have an EDU edition, they also have a government edition, both of which can be used for free for non-profits up to 3,000 users. It's a phenomenal service that Google does there. Obviously a lot of non-profits use Salesforce. They get 10 free user licenses of Salesforce and are able to do their fundraising, which is there's a non-profit starter pack that comes with a fundraising package. A lot of non-profits tend to do their own fundraising you know recruitment and admissions, volunteer management, human capital so that they're tracking you know people that they're helping you know aiding a lot of nonprofits do that type of work so they're you know they're just tracking data and it just makes a whole lot more sense to track it in the cloud using you know something like Salesforce or even Google Apps than it does to track it on an Excel spreadsheet, which a lot of them are doing. They don't get the economies of scale and the ability to collaborate with each other when you're doing things on a spreadsheet on a shared drive, as you would using Salesforce or Google. A lot of partners of Google and Salesforce and among others, they follow the model of the foundations that give this stuff away for free. So they'll either give away their product totally free or discount it heavily for nonprofits. So if you're a nonprofit and you're looking to use Google or Salesforce or those are the two main ones that I've seen used but there are plenty of other cloud products. Look at AppExchange listings and Google Marketplace listings and most likely they'll say discounted for MPOs or NGOs and that essentially means they're discounting it for nonprofit use. And in some cases it's completely free, which is free is good. The thing that nonprofits often run into is that they get stuff for free and then they don't use it right. So another self-serving plug is companies like ourselves, like ourselves, like our guests, help nonprofits get the most out of this high-end technology.

Jason Atwood: Right, and in some ways we like to say, hey listen, if you're getting a lot of this stuff for free, you want to pay for some of the, you know, pay this small amount to get, to make sure you get set up for yourself. Because you're right, we've seen many clients who just, they're coming around in their second or third round of, geez I have this, but no one's adopted it, or they're still living in Excel spreadsheets, There are all sorts of issues with that. So yeah, I agree. I think in some ways, like nonprofits and startups and small businesses, there's actually an article today about how small businesses are really adopting the cloud much faster than large enterprises, which makes absolute sense. It's like a no-brainer. But it's about the time to market. It's about speed. It's about capital costs. They don't want to spend millions of dollars in hardware just to start the ball rolling. So, that's cool. Alright, time for the CloudFocus app pick of the week.

26:56 Justin Edelstein: It's starting to roll off the tongue. It is, it is. The CloudFocus app pick of the week.

Jason Atwood: We're going to ask you to do a little bit on the speedy side since we're running towards our allotted 30 minutes. We're going to try to keep this podcast 2. So give me your CloudFocus app pick of the week. Sure.

Justin Edelstein: a Salesforce AppExchange product called DreamFactory Snapshot. It is a phenomenal change management tool. It allows you to take a snapshot of any sandbox org and compare it against a snapshot of your production org. So if you're making changes in your sandbox environment or your development environment, you can look at the differences between that environment and your production environment and then you can actually push those changes from the sandbox to the production environment. You know this is a great tool for admins who aren't developers, who aren't used to using something like Eclipse and who don't quite trust the cloud deploy that Salesforce has just released and might still be in beta. DreamFactory Snapshots been around for a while and they do a great job at you know taking customizations and changes from one

Jason Atwood: place and moving them to another. Where do they store the data while it's going between? Is it on their servers? Yeah the data is with DreamFactory. It's all

Justin Edelstein: in metadata and then it moves over to... That might be something just

Jason Atwood: again if your data... I find this pretty interesting. People get very specific about where the data is when they're talking to the first cloud provider and company like Salesforce. Where is it? What's gonna happen? But then they'll go take an AppExchange product and throw it in there and not realize that their data is going there as well. Just always make sure, I mean it's a good thing, I've never actually used it but we've evaluated it in different life. But always make sure you understand that if you're installing a third party application that does something with your data outside of your Salesforce instance that it possibly could be going to there and then you might want to check up on that. That's a good one. What's the pricing on it, do you know?

Justin Edelstein: It's based on your org. So it's not a simple answer. It's not a simple answer. It's not a data or users or? Um, users. Okay. Alright. It's not a simple answer.

Jason Atwood: Yeah, and I didn't think it would be because most cloud computing solutions are based on the per user. Which gets kind of weird when you're already paying a per license fee and then a per personal license fee and then they want to add on top and that's fine for 5 to 10, 20, 30 people but when you get to, you know, 3,000 people.

Justin Edelstein: When you're up there you have a little leverage.

Jason Atwood: It's true, it's true. All right, well, mine's gonna be the, it is something because we did something last week and it seems to be in our Twitter stream a lot. So I thought, not only will I talk about it, but I'll throw in the little biscuit that makes it cloud computing. So my pick of the week is an application by one of my favorite companies on the planet, besides my own, called OmniGroup. They have been around since the days of NeXT OS, which is a long, long time ago. They actually were known for building one of the first browsers on the next platform called OmniWeb. Anyway, they became a big GTD, Getting Things Done shop. And then three years ago, because one of their products was being heavily used by a set of Apple scripts to do this, they decided it was time to turn it into an actual application and they created OmniFocus. OmniFocus is, at the very basis, it's a task management, task and project management. from its simplest basis you can just have a bunch of lists and you can just sort through

30:39 Jason Atwood: those lists. If you want to get more advanced it can do sort of projects and it has a lot of the getting things done or GTD methodology built into it about next actions and about context, about where you do work. There's actually some great documentation on their website which is at omni-group.com slash, I'm sure, slash OmniFocus. They have PDFs, they have white papers, they have videos, really good stuff. The thing that I actually think it brings into the cloud piece is that they have an iPhone version, they have their Mac shop so they're not going to be on anything else but Mac, but they have an iPhone version, an iPad version, and a Mac OS version. They all sync pretty well actually through MobileMe. They actually have their own cloud sync platform as well. It's nice in some ways it's cloud computing, right? Because my data sits up on the mobile me servers, which are Apple, which you pay for as a service.

Jason Atwood: But they have a free beta version of theirs, which is a similar thing. And everything I do here kind of gets synced up there and synced down to my iPhone and then synced to my iPad. And if I do a task here or add in a bunch of stuff, it's really a nice application. It is a lot, but I always like to measure what I purchase in time. If I feel like an application actually helps me be more productive, it gives me half an hour a day or an hour a day. Well, an hour a day times seven days, you know, seven hours and that's a lot of time. And what am I willing to pay for that time? So it's OmniFocus by OmniGroup with MobileMe Sync for 80 bucks at OmniGroup.com. And that is the end of the podcast. If you want to follow us on any one of our social networking, please go to, you're on Twitter. We're at three different places. The company, Arkus, is at arkusinc.com, A-R-K-U-S-I-N-C, sorry, twitter.com slash arkusinc. I'm at Jason M. Atwood, so twitter.com slash Jason M. Atwood. Justin's at twitter.com slash justedelstein. And then we're on Facebook too. Facebook.com slash Arkus Inc. You can follow us there as well. We post basically, you know, news and, and things like that the podcasts. There's also blog.arkusinc.com if you want to just you want to catch up. I know Justin, I've been reading over his next blog post, you're not gonna want to miss that. It's a really good one. He's blowing me away. I've got to get going on

33:47 Jason Atwood: mine. And if you're in if you want to subscribe to the podcast, go to iTunes. iTunes, you can subscribe and it flows down to you through the cloud every day or whenever it's published. It's great stuff. So do that and if you're there leave us a review. We actually got a review last week which is great. Our first review. Thank you very much. I forgot the name of the person. The username of the person. But thank you very much for putting that review up there. We love that. It really helps out on the rankings and all that and just so we know that you really enjoyed the podcast. So that's it. So thank you for joining us for this CloudFocus Weekly and until next week enjoy those cloudy days.